recording-subtitles/2021/DPO/Project.kdenlive.srt

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the okay so i guess so we

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are good to go and so on

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the festival as thank you very much

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although choosing the sir these conferences thank

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you very much already for being reverse

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her to death

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i have to say that already has

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been that the first the speaker that

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they asked her to come to metal

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boot camp were directly accepted so i

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would like to thank you once more

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for being sore lets out reactive so

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positive and to have the will of

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being reversed today and this conference to

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be

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no different than the different one that

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we got over the last hours because

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this conference is an interview so it's

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probably the only one in addition to

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the one table that we other yesterday

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we've had a different matter more expert

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saw the concept of an interview of

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course is to ask some questions

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already prepare some question that i will

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ask her to or already to there

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so those question will be shown on

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the screen as you cannot see it

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right now those slides are done mai

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mai sorrowful cared those are not done

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by valeri so that's why you will

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see the diary not lead that mature

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beauty fall is just that i'm not

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i'm not an artist when they designed

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the slides and if you like care

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to ask any questions to her on

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a leash please use a shut that

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mathml camp that olga and you will

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have the possibility to act as a

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reply your questions toilet is why we

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look at them pick them up and

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ask them to oily on safe finish

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to present the different questions that they

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that they prepare

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an small thank you thank you for

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having me first of all as well

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ananta and i'm excited about all the

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conversations also taking place around gd pr

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compliance pii personal data and privacy i

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think it's an important topic and so

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i want

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the two shared it's visions of the

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future as well discussions about risk so

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let's look at going let's go

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a soul the topic name is how

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does risk for the or differ from

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classical risk of perception and the first

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question i would like to ask you

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already is the following one could you

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please introduce your search your audience and

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explain what your job position consist of

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shock

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i so i introducing myself he asked

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me the question why i came from

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i am dutch french speaking have lived

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a long time in brussels where i

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did my economics and economic studies and

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then moved to spain

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i have been in the digital analytics

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sphere since around two thousand where a

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web trends log analyzer six landed on

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my desk and i was asked to

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well find insights with that tool with

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a lot of flash websites and at

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the time and it was also the

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time of service and google analytics came

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a lot later at least for my

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career i it was partially a game

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changer on different levels but it also

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worried me in terms of privacy and

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how much data we were collecting and

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also integrating a stitching

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together and and so i started looking

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also at some at privacy certainly after

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we sold our startup in belgium called

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like two two lps digital lp i

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digitized in the uk

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and so once my children were small

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i created a family and started looking

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at this thing called td pr and

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following the progression of that legislation it

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took five years and started also to

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understand how the lawyers who are talking

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because

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i didn't have a legal background at

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all i am now very happy that

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i can actually quote certain articles of

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the gd pr

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out of my mind hurricane because i

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use it so much and today i

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have my own consultancy and i have

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basically three pillars in there on the

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one hand side i am a g

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p o official data protection officer for

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a customer data platform called and particle

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based out of new york

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on the other hand i also teach

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dpl courses for different university of which

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the university of massachusetts

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are they also created the european centre

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for privacy and cybersecurity so it's not

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just me it's a bunch of very

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smart people that all come with different

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angles and we talk about digitization of

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our societies we teach in those courses

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and some of my colleagues from maastricht

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university are this weekend

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senegal to teach about gd pr so

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it's it's about making sure that this

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idea of privacy legislation enshrined within the

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gp are also in it influences global

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thinking and this is what we're seeing

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gdp as a blueprint and my last

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pillar is i was

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work for european institutions and i worked

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on ethics for the european data protection

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supervisor their ethical advisory boards back in

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two thousand and sixteen so when basically

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the ink was dry on the gdp

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our european institutions were asking themselves what's

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next

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and this is what we're seeing today

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with initiatives by for example terrible dawn

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with

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the different acronyms that are coming out

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of the digital services act and and

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and other governance acts are currently being

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discussed on on top of discussions about

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artificial intelligence and this while the supervisory

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resources are ramping up to make sure

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that they can enforce the gd pr

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we're also seeing more complains so these

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are basically the three pillars where i

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sit about my official job position as

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such that we're going to talk about

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here is as data protection officer for

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a sas platform based out of the

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us

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okay thanks very much i'm sorry there

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is one question that i didn't have

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a plan but just by the lets

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at the end so that you gift

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this question make me sink about so

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feel free of cost to himself or

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twitter or not you mention web trance

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i just would like to know back

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in the days

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is what happened in in the the

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way analytic solution evolve where you really

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realize that's the privacy concerns started i

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mean at which point did the solution

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evolved that much that it started to

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be a privacy concern

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amen i'm sorry i have to rephrase

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it but according to you when all

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the years at which led to citizens

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all is a good omen started to

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to start to care about privacy because

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i guess the back in the day

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webtrends people were not sinking as much

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as the let's a cell ready

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an saw analytic system or anything anything

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this was just for them nika a

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software for the eighty guys that sir

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but not for marketers and that may

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be used in terms of raising what

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citizens are doing and and and at

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what point did you realize the day

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is clearly a privacy concern which is

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raising that that's my question

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well i i think generally speaking there's

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a difference between me and and then

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you know the public in general and

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i remember back in two thousand reading

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a newspaper articles i think was a

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new york times that talked about this

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idea that cookies could be shared between

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websites

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and so that profiles could be built

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and the fact that you know advertisers

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could target people that are interested in

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i think it was the n b

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a but also read financial reports

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and so this idea of profiling was

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started starting to to kind of arise

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for those who are paying attention the

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thing is market share in advertising for

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digital took a long time to evolve

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and so if we're talking about the

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early two thousands were also we had

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the dot com bust and we're not

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talking about you know a broad range

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of surveillance mechanisms because basically not a

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lot of people were were actually online

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so that that's one part so these

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these issues have arisen

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certainty from for the last twenty years

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this is not new the thing the

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biggest and how should i say er

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alarm bell that was was really i

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think something important that was not noticed

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a lot but is refer to very

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often and more recently in the last

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three years is the acquisition of doubleclick

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by google

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i think this really hot

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an important consequence that we see today

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because it's it's not just about privacy

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it's certainly about while the market share

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it's about antitrust legislation it's about competition

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and there was actually in dissenting opinion

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for the acquisition of doubleclick by google

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by somebody called pamela harbour which you

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can still find online today and when

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you read that document from two thousand

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and seven so almost fifteen years ago

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you realize that basic issues describing what

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we are witnessing today

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so privacy is one part of this

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the gdp rs one part of this

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accountability but antitrust and competition are going

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to play increasing roles and last week

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i was also at the university of

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toulouse because i worked for the european

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institutions and the observatory of the platform

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economy and

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that's what we are witnessing today is

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platform ization of services where certain of

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the actors have very important market share

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and influence other actors and the question

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is okay what are we going to

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do about that because these are going

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to be the next challenges so they're

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not new questions

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it's the gdp doesn't solve for everything

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but it's it's it's a milestone in

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her goals towards trying to balance out

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the use of data the digitization of

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our societies together with the opportunities that

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are there for the businesses but also

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making sure sure that for

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fundamental rights are respected and whether that

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fundamental rights is privacy the right did

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freedom of expression there are different rights

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also battling in in this changing our

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societies so it's it's a journey we

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we are not done yet and we'll

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see where we go okay saying

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sure much i repeated for audiences but

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if for some of you guys who

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like to ask some question too early

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please feel free to go and shut

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that matter will come the oxalic the

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womb which correspond to this conference and

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asked the director your questions to unleash

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and they would pick them up

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the next question is said to one

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of the earth of the question of

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the topic today could you please explain

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to our audience what the dp also

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i'm not going to give the definition

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and purpose here what the dpr is

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about

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yeah so so a dpl is on

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a roll that has been brought to

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life through the judy pr

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and is actually describes between articles thirty

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seven and thirty nine of the gd

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pr where article thirty seven talks about

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when a company needs to designate a

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data protection officer and then what their

281
00:12:29,445 --> 00:12:31,755
position is and what the tasks of

282
00:12:31,755 --> 00:12:33,075
the data protection officer

283
00:12:33,165 --> 00:12:37,485
r and so in that sense our

284
00:12:38,235 --> 00:12:43,245
privacy questions inside companies and can emanate

285
00:12:43,275 --> 00:12:46,065
from the technical teams the legal teams

286
00:12:46,755 --> 00:12:49,485
and the customer support teams and what

287
00:12:49,485 --> 00:12:51,435
is really interesting with with a duty

288
00:12:51,435 --> 00:12:53,235
pr is that they create

289
00:12:53,369 --> 00:12:56,865
this obligation of a centralizing role that

290
00:12:56,865 --> 00:12:58,815
basically takes on i call it the

291
00:12:58,815 --> 00:13:01,035
hot potatoes so i am a hot

292
00:13:01,035 --> 00:13:04,035
potato take her for anything where we

293
00:13:04,035 --> 00:13:06,825
have questions about does this make sense

294
00:13:06,825 --> 00:13:08,475
does it support a fundamental right to

295
00:13:08,505 --> 00:13:10,515
privacy or or is this a problem

296
00:13:11,715 --> 00:13:13,635
so the gdp are basically defines this

297
00:13:13,635 --> 00:13:15,825
companies have a choice to decide whether

298
00:13:15,825 --> 00:13:18,975
they appoint one or not and it's

299
00:13:18,975 --> 00:13:23,025
finding itself also incite more legislations i

300
00:13:23,025 --> 00:13:25,275
was reading about singapore last nights and

301
00:13:25,275 --> 00:13:28,215
singapore also on talks about data protection

302
00:13:28,215 --> 00:13:31,725
officers and so these people are basically

303
00:13:31,725 --> 00:13:31,875
b

304
00:13:31,875 --> 00:13:35,715
bridges between different departments to make sure

305
00:13:35,715 --> 00:13:38,835
that's the way data is being treated

306
00:13:38,955 --> 00:13:41,835
is as balanced as possible between you

307
00:13:41,835 --> 00:13:44,355
know opportunities for business and and fundamental

308
00:13:44,355 --> 00:13:48,105
rights to privacy that the specific and

309
00:13:48,108 --> 00:13:50,175
i think position also have a dpr

310
00:13:50,235 --> 00:13:52,035
is that you give rec

311
00:13:52,035 --> 00:13:55,155
tremendous patience but it doesn't always mean

312
00:13:55,155 --> 00:13:57,105
that the company follows it's you're not

313
00:13:57,105 --> 00:13:59,955
a decision maker you are

314
00:14:00,795 --> 00:14:03,795
you represents the fundamental rights of data

315
00:14:03,795 --> 00:14:07,395
subjects and looking at the systems the

316
00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:11,145
data flaws the processes you make recommendations

317
00:14:11,145 --> 00:14:13,725
with respect to how the system should

318
00:14:13,725 --> 00:14:16,965
work after that add depending on who

319
00:14:16,965 --> 00:14:19,995
the dpr reports to it's a it's

320
00:14:19,995 --> 00:14:20,595
a risk bay

321
00:14:20,595 --> 00:14:22,725
based analysis from the company to say

322
00:14:23,145 --> 00:14:25,155
i agree or i don't or don't

323
00:14:25,155 --> 00:14:27,045
agree or i come with something else

324
00:14:28,035 --> 00:14:30,195
in order to mitigate the potential issue

325
00:14:30,198 --> 00:14:31,845
that was raised by the dpl

326
00:14:35,775 --> 00:14:36,255
thank you

327
00:14:38,445 --> 00:14:41,385
okay i sink and the the next

328
00:14:41,385 --> 00:14:44,685
question is authority as well occurs the

329
00:14:44,687 --> 00:14:47,841
question it's like what when we when

330
00:14:47,841 --> 00:14:50,325
he when we hear you we would

331
00:14:50,325 --> 00:14:52,275
have the feeling that the data protection

332
00:14:52,275 --> 00:14:55,425
officer is like the sheep we have

333
00:14:55,425 --> 00:14:57,255
a five six legs

334
00:14:58,095 --> 00:14:59,865
could you please tell us a bit

335
00:14:59,895 --> 00:15:02,954
more about the background that's most of

336
00:15:02,955 --> 00:15:03,375
sure

337
00:15:04,695 --> 00:15:06,525
colleagues let's sales people that you are

338
00:15:06,525 --> 00:15:08,115
seeing on the field who are the

339
00:15:08,115 --> 00:15:11,115
people like you of all could you

340
00:15:11,115 --> 00:15:14,055
as well explain you expand us

341
00:15:15,105 --> 00:15:17,475
how did you succeed to come to

342
00:15:17,475 --> 00:15:19,395
to take this position as well what

343
00:15:19,395 --> 00:15:23,325
motivated you in the king disposition are

344
00:15:23,325 --> 00:15:25,905
you like learning every dash are you

345
00:15:27,435 --> 00:15:30,048
are you sometimes scared of trust of

346
00:15:30,165 --> 00:15:33,345
in a new techie stuff to learn

347
00:15:33,345 --> 00:15:35,265
which are a brand-new which of course

348
00:15:35,505 --> 00:15:38,715
could raise more complexities maybe you may

349
00:15:38,715 --> 00:15:40,725
realize that okay i have those new

350
00:15:40,725 --> 00:15:43,665
information system coming within my risk assessment

351
00:15:43,965 --> 00:15:45,525
and i don't know them and i

352
00:15:45,555 --> 00:15:47,235
don't have the time to enjoy

353
00:15:47,235 --> 00:15:48,915
instigate them because i just have one

354
00:15:48,915 --> 00:15:51,825
we can free an overdose question and

355
00:15:51,825 --> 00:15:53,895
just coming to my head and the

356
00:15:54,015 --> 00:15:56,025
gen one that i succeeded to graph

357
00:15:56,030 --> 00:15:57,315
this could you please tell us a

358
00:15:57,315 --> 00:15:59,595
bit more about the background that's the

359
00:15:59,595 --> 00:16:02,385
appeal must of to embrace this position

360
00:16:03,165 --> 00:16:05,625
yeah and i see there's there's also

361
00:16:05,655 --> 00:16:06,975
a question about that

362
00:16:07,395 --> 00:16:08,295
in the chats

363
00:16:09,315 --> 00:16:09,724
i

364
00:16:11,115 --> 00:16:13,635
that was basically the next question and

365
00:16:13,725 --> 00:16:16,455
yeah so it it's interesting to note

366
00:16:16,515 --> 00:16:19,455
that for example there's an association called

367
00:16:19,455 --> 00:16:23,175
the aipp international association of privacy professionals

368
00:16:23,835 --> 00:16:25,695
and they do surveys to see who

369
00:16:25,695 --> 00:16:28,755
their members are and and i remember

370
00:16:28,785 --> 00:16:30,525
early on because they weren't like the

371
00:16:30,525 --> 00:16:31,155
first lawyer

372
00:16:31,275 --> 00:16:33,165
or started talking to us just like

373
00:16:33,225 --> 00:16:35,295
they were there thought it sounded like

374
00:16:35,415 --> 00:16:37,065
the best way that the best place

375
00:16:37,065 --> 00:16:37,485
to go

376
00:16:38,775 --> 00:16:42,075
when they serve as surveys and their

377
00:16:42,075 --> 00:16:45,345
members do and not all of them

378
00:16:45,345 --> 00:16:48,517
had been appointed dpl but the majority

379
00:16:48,705 --> 00:16:52,005
had the legal backgrounds and so there

380
00:16:52,005 --> 00:16:55,485
are also recommendations certainly in the early

381
00:16:55,485 --> 00:16:58,125
days of the gg pr by different

382
00:16:58,125 --> 00:16:58,755
authorities

383
00:16:58,755 --> 00:17:02,655
s to consider that dps should have

384
00:17:02,715 --> 00:17:03,825
a legal background

385
00:17:05,295 --> 00:17:07,095
now i do understand that but i

386
00:17:07,095 --> 00:17:08,535
tend not to agree

387
00:17:09,555 --> 00:17:12,525
i because i think that's as you

388
00:17:12,525 --> 00:17:14,565
said the whole nights it's a mouton

389
00:17:14,565 --> 00:17:17,204
sank bats it's a it's a it's

390
00:17:17,204 --> 00:17:19,545
a sheep with five legs we used

391
00:17:19,545 --> 00:17:20,714
to say that about a weapon the

392
00:17:20,714 --> 00:17:22,905
olympics as well many years ago so

393
00:17:22,905 --> 00:17:25,305
that's that's always funny to those parallels

394
00:17:25,305 --> 00:17:29,145
that actually come back and buds as

395
00:17:29,145 --> 00:17:29,715
as your

396
00:17:29,895 --> 00:17:33,855
a bridge builder between certainty the technical

397
00:17:33,855 --> 00:17:35,865
teams and certainly for as a dpr

398
00:17:35,866 --> 00:17:38,895
for for a data platform and you

399
00:17:38,895 --> 00:17:41,025
need to have some understanding also of

400
00:17:41,085 --> 00:17:44,205
of cell technology of data and also

401
00:17:44,205 --> 00:17:46,905
be able to interpret the law and

402
00:17:46,935 --> 00:17:49,875
so my background is econometrics institute

403
00:17:49,905 --> 00:17:52,935
six i know digital because i've basically

404
00:17:52,935 --> 00:17:54,435
been in there for the last twenty

405
00:17:54,435 --> 00:17:57,315
years and and curious about it and

406
00:17:57,345 --> 00:17:59,865
i learned the the legal path and

407
00:17:59,865 --> 00:18:02,505
keep talking to the lawyers about the

408
00:18:02,505 --> 00:18:07,545
interpretation what does certain words mean and

409
00:18:07,665 --> 00:18:10,035
i inside certain court decisions and

410
00:18:10,035 --> 00:18:11,865
this is where i think it's also

411
00:18:11,865 --> 00:18:15,105
important to have like a network of

412
00:18:15,105 --> 00:18:18,705
individuals that can bring their thoughts and

413
00:18:18,705 --> 00:18:22,515
reflections about the interpretation of legislation and

414
00:18:22,605 --> 00:18:25,845
so most dps i would say either

415
00:18:25,905 --> 00:18:28,995
they have been appointed as as an

416
00:18:29,025 --> 00:18:29,955
additional

417
00:18:31,425 --> 00:18:33,435
how should a task to their job

418
00:18:34,215 --> 00:18:36,765
by bigger companies because somebody had to

419
00:18:36,765 --> 00:18:38,565
beat the dpl because of the gdp

420
00:18:38,565 --> 00:18:41,925
are as of the enforcement i've seen

421
00:18:41,925 --> 00:18:44,595
different types of dps i've seen really

422
00:18:44,595 --> 00:18:46,095
legal legal people who are going to

423
00:18:46,125 --> 00:18:47,925
touch upon digital at all and don't

424
00:18:47,925 --> 00:18:50,355
understand how it works and dsp

425
00:18:50,355 --> 00:18:52,335
people even work at facebook sites it's

426
00:18:52,425 --> 00:18:55,365
sometimes a bit scary and i've seen

427
00:18:55,905 --> 00:18:58,905
people who are very technical and very

428
00:18:58,905 --> 00:19:03,075
pragmatic and talk about processes as i've

429
00:19:03,075 --> 00:19:06,705
seen more jack junior people what worries

430
00:19:06,705 --> 00:19:09,105
me the most i have to confess

431
00:19:09,105 --> 00:19:10,515
but it's it's maturing

432
00:19:11,055 --> 00:19:12,825
is that the pills searching in the

433
00:19:12,825 --> 00:19:15,975
beginning were very young so it's like

434
00:19:15,975 --> 00:19:17,775
oh we have to appoint somebody you

435
00:19:17,775 --> 00:19:19,875
know to take the hot potato and

436
00:19:19,935 --> 00:19:21,825
to be honest you get pushed rounds

437
00:19:22,372 --> 00:19:23,745
you get pushed around by the sea

438
00:19:23,745 --> 00:19:25,935
teal by you know you you have

439
00:19:25,935 --> 00:19:27,915
to ask questions to understand how the

440
00:19:27,915 --> 00:19:30,615
systems work and if you're not like

441
00:19:30,855 --> 00:19:33,885
your persistence and i typically use my

442
00:19:33,885 --> 00:19:35,175
gray hair and say you know i

443
00:19:35,235 --> 00:19:36,735
am really silly i'm really stupid but

444
00:19:36,735 --> 00:19:38,175
i don't understand what you guys are

445
00:19:38,175 --> 00:19:41,565
talking about and then i i'm not

446
00:19:41,565 --> 00:19:43,725
sure you're very effective as a dps

447
00:19:44,955 --> 00:19:47,205
so it's it's the maturity and and

448
00:19:47,205 --> 00:19:49,485
i think you're also the experience of

449
00:19:49,635 --> 00:19:55,155
difference and specialization that makes for a

450
00:19:55,155 --> 00:19:58,485
good dpl but it's it's a new

451
00:19:58,485 --> 00:20:00,765
type of title so it still needs

452
00:20:00,765 --> 00:20:02,835
to evolve but there's less lawyers in

453
00:20:02,835 --> 00:20:04,995
there jpp did another show

454
00:20:04,995 --> 00:20:08,565
survey survey i realized that this percentage

455
00:20:08,565 --> 00:20:10,935
of lawyers up about eighty percent went

456
00:20:10,935 --> 00:20:14,025
back to forty so other types of

457
00:20:15,585 --> 00:20:18,945
profiles are also starting to to to

458
00:20:18,945 --> 00:20:22,365
apply to data protection officer jobs and

459
00:20:22,635 --> 00:20:25,005
often they come from privacy home sourcing

460
00:20:25,005 --> 00:20:25,155
so

461
00:20:25,985 --> 00:20:28,085
or they just went through certain trainings

462
00:20:28,085 --> 00:20:29,405
and and this is what they want

463
00:20:29,434 --> 00:20:29,645
to do

464
00:20:32,075 --> 00:20:34,445
okay thank you i i often those

465
00:20:34,445 --> 00:20:36,155
accused that your question was just came

466
00:20:36,215 --> 00:20:38,945
from and which links back to something

467
00:20:38,945 --> 00:20:40,895
that you that you said some minutes

468
00:20:40,895 --> 00:20:45,305
ago about okay you provide recommendation and

469
00:20:45,305 --> 00:20:47,705
then the ceo of the company on

470
00:20:47,705 --> 00:20:50,285
let's just take coral bells deciding to

471
00:20:50,285 --> 00:20:50,585
go

472
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:52,595
this way is up to go and

473
00:20:52,595 --> 00:20:54,455
those away always up to nuts have

474
00:20:54,485 --> 00:20:57,005
loads of recommendation at all and we've

475
00:20:57,005 --> 00:20:59,596
injured the pr what is already famous

476
00:20:59,615 --> 00:21:02,615
for this whole depress us spread the

477
00:21:02,615 --> 00:21:04,925
world about his his those four per

478
00:21:04,985 --> 00:21:08,495
cent of turnover on it said penalties

479
00:21:08,825 --> 00:21:10,985
if someone is not respect

480
00:21:10,985 --> 00:21:12,935
acting or let's say gdps i would

481
00:21:12,935 --> 00:21:14,765
like to say that does it work

482
00:21:14,765 --> 00:21:16,685
for wheel on the shield i mean

483
00:21:16,685 --> 00:21:19,085
this threat of a guys if you

484
00:21:19,115 --> 00:21:20,735
don't follow my recommendation

485
00:21:21,815 --> 00:21:24,039
you may be subject to four percent

486
00:21:24,065 --> 00:21:27,155
off of penalty of ton about your

487
00:21:27,155 --> 00:21:29,465
company always it in fact some something

488
00:21:29,465 --> 00:21:32,135
that the company does not even care

489
00:21:32,135 --> 00:21:34,355
about because they're saying that that it

490
00:21:34,355 --> 00:21:36,725
will never happen because they'll sell too

491
00:21:36,725 --> 00:21:38,555
powerful on the market and of course

492
00:21:38,555 --> 00:21:41,165
they will use some as a let's

493
00:21:41,165 --> 00:21:41,945
say a way

494
00:21:41,945 --> 00:21:44,195
as of single cat you cannot put

495
00:21:44,195 --> 00:21:46,445
me for boston because if so i

496
00:21:46,445 --> 00:21:49,235
will decide to outsource all my company

497
00:21:49,237 --> 00:21:52,205
somewhere and finally know one of the

498
00:21:52,235 --> 00:21:54,845
goodness four percent let's say

499
00:21:55,895 --> 00:21:58,925
penalty so i would probably go to

500
00:21:59,015 --> 00:22:01,685
maybe five or six warnings before the

501
00:22:01,715 --> 00:22:04,325
plates and i would probably actor under

502
00:22:04,325 --> 00:22:07,475
celled wanting something like this and feel

503
00:22:07,505 --> 00:22:08,915
free to insult to this question that's

504
00:22:08,915 --> 00:22:11,285
ok this is confidential i prefer nothing

505
00:22:11,285 --> 00:22:13,715
sober i'm just curious about this point

506
00:22:13,775 --> 00:22:16,025
does it does does it work

507
00:22:16,025 --> 00:22:19,055
ok this four-person the threat of of

508
00:22:19,055 --> 00:22:19,715
affinity

509
00:22:20,825 --> 00:22:23,285
i think as we are

510
00:22:24,485 --> 00:22:27,215
beyond a couple of years of enforcement

511
00:22:27,245 --> 00:22:29,825
of the gd pr and i think

512
00:22:29,825 --> 00:22:31,925
initially it did it did scare a

513
00:22:31,925 --> 00:22:34,295
lot of people because you have to

514
00:22:34,295 --> 00:22:36,755
understand that prior to the gdp are

515
00:22:36,755 --> 00:22:39,995
the data protection directive only allowed two

516
00:22:39,995 --> 00:22:42,785
countries to fine around half a million

517
00:22:42,785 --> 00:22:44,585
euros and that was

518
00:22:44,675 --> 00:22:45,815
uk and spain

519
00:22:47,315 --> 00:22:50,255
i so i remember talking to somebody

520
00:22:50,255 --> 00:22:51,544
in digital and that it takes a

521
00:22:51,544 --> 00:22:53,495
couple of years back before the gd

522
00:22:53,498 --> 00:22:56,825
pr and i think that person was

523
00:22:56,825 --> 00:23:00,095
in the czech republic and that person

524
00:23:00,095 --> 00:23:02,165
said you know if if anybody gets

525
00:23:02,165 --> 00:23:04,175
fined under the data protection directive is

526
00:23:04,175 --> 00:23:06,395
like what is it five hundred euros

527
00:23:06,545 --> 00:23:07,145
who cares

528
00:23:07,145 --> 00:23:10,085
it's it's it doesn't matter it's just

529
00:23:10,085 --> 00:23:12,395
you know doing business and as i'm

530
00:23:12,395 --> 00:23:13,985
based in spain i know that you

531
00:23:13,985 --> 00:23:16,475
know companies like telefonica they basically had

532
00:23:16,475 --> 00:23:19,355
a budget for data protection finds under

533
00:23:19,355 --> 00:23:20,255
the directive

534
00:23:21,545 --> 00:23:24,246
so initially i think it was really

535
00:23:24,246 --> 00:23:26,585
a good you know wake up call

536
00:23:26,645 --> 00:23:28,325
to say hey guys two to four

537
00:23:28,325 --> 00:23:30,545
percent of global turnover or twenty million

538
00:23:30,545 --> 00:23:33,815
euros whichever is higher is your financial

539
00:23:33,815 --> 00:23:38,015
risk and and it did serve as

540
00:23:38,015 --> 00:23:39,875
a wake up call it it's why

541
00:23:39,905 --> 00:23:41,465
you know all these data protection offer

542
00:23:41,495 --> 00:23:43,295
series have been appointed and things like

543
00:23:43,295 --> 00:23:46,685
that i i today think this is

544
00:23:46,685 --> 00:23:50,075
starting to backfire why am i saying

545
00:23:50,075 --> 00:23:53,765
that's well because what basically happened to

546
00:23:53,765 --> 00:23:57,335
the larger players who is a business

547
00:23:57,335 --> 00:24:00,335
model depends on personal data so they

548
00:24:00,335 --> 00:24:01,625
hired a lot of very

549
00:24:01,625 --> 00:24:06,575
smart privacy professionals before the enforcement of

550
00:24:06,575 --> 00:24:09,005
the gd pr and clearly had a

551
00:24:09,005 --> 00:24:11,765
strategy of what i call lawyering up

552
00:24:12,215 --> 00:24:15,545
if i get fined let's imagine fifty

553
00:24:15,545 --> 00:24:17,165
million euros by camille

554
00:24:17,825 --> 00:24:19,295
i dunno go to the courts and

555
00:24:19,295 --> 00:24:23,855
fight it and ideally that i find

556
00:24:23,855 --> 00:24:26,675
will disappear which which is what happened

557
00:24:26,735 --> 00:24:28,865
to the fifty million euros trump camille

558
00:24:30,485 --> 00:24:32,345
so in that sense it's a good

559
00:24:32,345 --> 00:24:34,235
thing because it woke up the markets

560
00:24:34,445 --> 00:24:37,715
it's not ideal because it doesn't align

561
00:24:37,895 --> 00:24:40,715
all the players into making sure that

562
00:24:40,745 --> 00:24:42,605
they do the right thing because they're

563
00:24:42,725 --> 00:24:46,685
using the legal system to basically escalate

564
00:24:47,975 --> 00:24:50,795
now this has a certain time and

565
00:24:50,885 --> 00:24:52,295
what we're seeing is that more and

566
00:24:52,295 --> 00:24:54,695
more of these questions are actually now

567
00:24:54,695 --> 00:24:56,765
coming to the european court of justice

568
00:24:57,905 --> 00:25:01,115
so it's a matter of maturity where

569
00:25:01,205 --> 00:25:03,125
the market needs to evolve in a

570
00:25:03,125 --> 00:25:05,675
certain direction where certain new ways of

571
00:25:05,705 --> 00:25:10,265
thinking around data needs to take root

572
00:25:10,385 --> 00:25:13,205
and be accepted and that takes time

573
00:25:13,715 --> 00:25:15,245
we used to be in a time

574
00:25:15,245 --> 00:25:16,835
of let's collect everything and see what

575
00:25:16,835 --> 00:25:17,615
happens

576
00:25:18,095 --> 00:25:19,805
we are now in a time of

577
00:25:20,345 --> 00:25:21,935
let's use the data that may be

578
00:25:21,935 --> 00:25:24,185
nuts at start deleting and not use

579
00:25:24,185 --> 00:25:26,945
everything and data minimization and things like

580
00:25:26,945 --> 00:25:29,765
that so we're becoming more prudent with

581
00:25:29,765 --> 00:25:31,895
what we're using and and asking more

582
00:25:31,895 --> 00:25:34,505
questions and as i mentioned there are

583
00:25:34,505 --> 00:25:37,895
other acronyms after the gdp are they

584
00:25:38,135 --> 00:25:40,385
the data governance act the digital digital

585
00:25:40,385 --> 00:25:43,445
services act we're not done yet in

586
00:25:43,445 --> 00:25:45,995
terms of making short in the right

587
00:25:45,995 --> 00:25:49,955
direction so that the risk of these

588
00:25:49,955 --> 00:25:53,705
finds is there it's not ideal and

589
00:25:53,885 --> 00:25:57,485
certain supervisory authorities have started to play

590
00:25:57,935 --> 00:25:58,265
enough

591
00:25:58,265 --> 00:25:59,855
very smart way with that in the

592
00:25:59,855 --> 00:26:02,435
sense that their fines are not huge

593
00:26:03,185 --> 00:26:09,215
but their requirements for compliance do have

594
00:26:09,395 --> 00:26:14,195
a significant cost effects and this means

595
00:26:14,195 --> 00:26:16,175
that there's for example a ruling in

596
00:26:16,175 --> 00:26:18,425
belgium where a

597
00:26:18,464 --> 00:26:20,435
bank needs to pay around two hundred

598
00:26:20,435 --> 00:26:24,065
euros in fines just nothing but they

599
00:26:24,065 --> 00:26:27,575
need to change their systems behind and

600
00:26:27,575 --> 00:26:30,185
this is the iceberg nobody seems to

601
00:26:30,185 --> 00:26:32,615
see are all the powers that the

602
00:26:32,615 --> 00:26:35,975
supervisory authority have to for example stop

603
00:26:35,975 --> 00:26:38,585
data flows and say you're not allowed

604
00:26:38,585 --> 00:26:40,835
how to pass that data from here

605
00:26:40,835 --> 00:26:43,565
to there or you need to delete

606
00:26:43,775 --> 00:26:46,235
everything that's dare in a surgical manner

607
00:26:46,955 --> 00:26:48,905
and this is the real risk of

608
00:26:48,995 --> 00:26:52,355
the gdp are are these inherent costs

609
00:26:52,445 --> 00:26:54,725
because we have been used to collecting

610
00:26:54,725 --> 00:26:57,875
everything and that if something goes wrong

611
00:26:57,905 --> 00:26:58,712
we will have to

612
00:26:58,745 --> 00:27:02,045
start cleaning up and that is going

613
00:27:02,045 --> 00:27:04,745
to be like the biggest challenge in

614
00:27:04,745 --> 00:27:07,566
the longer term other challenges are also

615
00:27:07,566 --> 00:27:09,635
arising if we're thinking about it from

616
00:27:09,635 --> 00:27:13,595
a global perspective class actions are typically

617
00:27:13,595 --> 00:27:17,225
not things that exist in europe so

618
00:27:17,225 --> 00:27:18,852
class actions is when people come to

619
00:27:18,852 --> 00:27:18,905
you

620
00:27:18,905 --> 00:27:20,765
gather and they go up against accompanied

621
00:27:20,765 --> 00:27:22,805
the biggest the best example i've found

622
00:27:22,805 --> 00:27:25,295
so far as the movie erin brockovich

623
00:27:26,165 --> 00:27:28,955
where she goes after a chemical company

624
00:27:29,525 --> 00:27:31,595
but these are rising there are class

625
00:27:31,595 --> 00:27:34,655
actions that are against salesforce and oracle

626
00:27:34,655 --> 00:27:36,275
and the netherlands there's a lot of

627
00:27:36,275 --> 00:27:39,065
discussions in in australia in two

628
00:27:39,065 --> 00:27:41,165
terms of evolutions of the cas actions

629
00:27:41,585 --> 00:27:43,715
so this is another risk that is

630
00:27:43,745 --> 00:27:46,586
not directly it's it's enshrined within gdp

631
00:27:46,595 --> 00:27:49,235
arts testing things out it will take

632
00:27:49,235 --> 00:27:51,605
time but potentially it will come that

633
00:27:51,605 --> 00:27:53,795
risk will come from other countries maybe

634
00:27:53,795 --> 00:27:54,725
even the us

635
00:27:56,915 --> 00:27:59,375
okay so here we can start to

636
00:27:59,375 --> 00:28:02,105
make a link with analytics like someone

637
00:28:02,135 --> 00:28:04,631
alone who claim that someone is not

638
00:28:04,631 --> 00:28:08,310
choosing that solution properly as no that's

639
00:28:08,315 --> 00:28:10,595
a real power but if you can

640
00:28:10,597 --> 00:28:13,119
find an online service who easily does

641
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,025
a the list in one piece

642
00:28:16,025 --> 00:28:20,015
people who find this an unconventional and

643
00:28:20,015 --> 00:28:21,695
would like to think the company could

644
00:28:21,725 --> 00:28:24,201
easily gazelle all around and just knew

645
00:28:24,201 --> 00:28:26,405
a couple of clicks quoted to do

646
00:28:26,405 --> 00:28:28,475
a class action that that's typically what

647
00:28:28,475 --> 00:28:31,145
you're thinking of them right yeah yeah

648
00:28:31,295 --> 00:28:33,635
absolutely i think that's that's the direction

649
00:28:33,635 --> 00:28:35,885
this might take and what's interesting also

650
00:28:35,885 --> 00:28:36,185
is that

651
00:28:36,215 --> 00:28:39,155
search of venture capitalists certainly in france

652
00:28:39,155 --> 00:28:42,455
are backing that up okay i saw

653
00:28:42,485 --> 00:28:44,015
him on the screen we probably have

654
00:28:44,015 --> 00:28:46,916
the ugliest the slide of the metal

655
00:28:46,954 --> 00:28:50,045
camp that they did myself the question

656
00:28:50,045 --> 00:28:52,655
is is just the following that's the

657
00:28:52,685 --> 00:28:54,725
topic submission that you make for maximum

658
00:28:54,725 --> 00:28:56,345
accompanies or does it

659
00:28:56,350 --> 00:28:59,100
risk for dps differ from classic called

660
00:28:59,167 --> 00:29:01,895
risk of perception and i just would

661
00:29:01,895 --> 00:29:04,775
like to know why did you decided

662
00:29:04,775 --> 00:29:06,515
to submit this topic i mean what

663
00:29:06,515 --> 00:29:08,225
what was the main message that you

664
00:29:08,225 --> 00:29:10,055
would like to to to give us

665
00:29:10,055 --> 00:29:12,455
because i guess that's when you choose

666
00:29:12,455 --> 00:29:14,675
it you have something in mind and

667
00:29:14,675 --> 00:29:15,815
i really would like to leave you

668
00:29:15,815 --> 00:29:16,505
the flaw here

669
00:29:16,510 --> 00:29:18,492
and to have the possibility to express

670
00:29:19,715 --> 00:29:22,235
everything that that odin mindful for this

671
00:29:22,235 --> 00:29:25,325
given topic or so so i talked

672
00:29:25,325 --> 00:29:27,155
a bit about risk before this notion

673
00:29:27,155 --> 00:29:30,365
of finds and what is underneath the

674
00:29:30,365 --> 00:29:32,495
iceberg of the finds that we don't

675
00:29:32,495 --> 00:29:35,525
see those hidden costs that will certainly

676
00:29:35,525 --> 00:29:36,305
influence

677
00:29:36,785 --> 00:29:40,565
the way we treat data whether it's

678
00:29:40,565 --> 00:29:41,915
personal or or not

679
00:29:42,425 --> 00:29:44,975
but what i also realized working certainly

680
00:29:44,975 --> 00:29:48,515
was compliance teams that go through certifications

681
00:29:49,145 --> 00:29:51,695
and talk about okay our our requirements

682
00:29:51,695 --> 00:29:54,995
in terms of compliance is that when

683
00:29:55,085 --> 00:29:58,775
these compliance teams talk about risk they

684
00:29:58,775 --> 00:30:02,585
talk about risk specifically for the compa

685
00:30:02,585 --> 00:30:02,825
any

686
00:30:04,145 --> 00:30:06,455
and as i mentioned before a data

687
00:30:06,455 --> 00:30:10,686
protection officer typically is an independent and

688
00:30:10,745 --> 00:30:15,035
an external adviser to a company and

689
00:30:15,185 --> 00:30:17,315
if you enshrine this within the logic

690
00:30:17,345 --> 00:30:19,625
of the gd pr but the dpr

691
00:30:19,652 --> 00:30:22,505
does is they represents the fundamental right

692
00:30:22,505 --> 00:30:24,185
to privacy of of the

693
00:30:24,185 --> 00:30:28,505
data subjects so when a dpr talks

694
00:30:28,505 --> 00:30:30,815
about risk and when you say hey

695
00:30:30,815 --> 00:30:32,555
you know mister company this is not

696
00:30:32,555 --> 00:30:34,115
good you should not be doing that

697
00:30:34,115 --> 00:30:38,255
because because because then the company will

698
00:30:38,255 --> 00:30:40,865
take a risk assessment of their own

699
00:30:41,195 --> 00:30:43,355
to decide whether yes or no they

700
00:30:43,355 --> 00:30:44,315
will they're going to

701
00:30:44,750 --> 00:30:47,450
will do something else but the risk

702
00:30:47,450 --> 00:30:51,290
perception when a dpr flags something is

703
00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:55,340
this external vision of risk to data

704
00:30:55,340 --> 00:31:00,590
subjects compliance people talk about risk for

705
00:31:00,590 --> 00:31:04,910
the company so these visions align

706
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,460
to a certain point but not totally

707
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,850
and so this is something that is

708
00:31:10,850 --> 00:31:14,090
i think important to understand also from

709
00:31:14,090 --> 00:31:16,400
a semantic perspective because as she said

710
00:31:16,430 --> 00:31:18,081
see that so many times i use

711
00:31:18,083 --> 00:31:20,030
same words as the security people but

712
00:31:20,030 --> 00:31:22,220
we don't mean the same thing when

713
00:31:22,220 --> 00:31:23,840
i talk about risk i talk about

714
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,830
risk to society to people outside of

715
00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:28,670
the company that can

716
00:31:28,670 --> 00:31:30,920
blind people talk about risk to the

717
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,490
company our financial consequences of the choices

718
00:31:34,490 --> 00:31:36,980
we make and i think this will

719
00:31:36,980 --> 00:31:40,460
continue to evolve but what surprises me

720
00:31:40,460 --> 00:31:42,800
is that first of all the understanding

721
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:44,750
of what a dps is or is

722
00:31:44,750 --> 00:31:47,240
supposed to be a dp oh is

723
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:48,830
not the same thing as privacy

724
00:31:48,860 --> 00:31:52,700
council because of privacy council works for

725
00:31:52,700 --> 00:31:54,890
a company and if for example a

726
00:31:54,890 --> 00:31:57,297
supervisory authority knocks on the door of

727
00:31:57,297 --> 00:31:59,720
accompany and talks to the privacy council

728
00:32:00,140 --> 00:32:04,130
the privacy council has obligations of confidentiality

729
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,790
a d p o's role as defined

730
00:32:07,790 --> 00:32:08,990
within also article

731
00:32:09,050 --> 00:32:11,030
thirty nine of the gd pr is

732
00:32:11,030 --> 00:32:13,700
actually to talk to supervisory authorities

733
00:32:14,780 --> 00:32:17,630
so this once once companies also understand

734
00:32:17,630 --> 00:32:20,120
this it also means that this row

735
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,770
of deep yo is challenging because it

736
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,350
it basically if you bring in the

737
00:32:27,350 --> 00:32:30,020
risk of having somebody external looking at

738
00:32:30,020 --> 00:32:32,300
what you're doing and being able to

739
00:32:32,300 --> 00:32:34,250
talk to supervisory authorities

740
00:32:35,330 --> 00:32:37,430
so it's it's it's a challenging position

741
00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:39,860
to build trust and i think after

742
00:32:39,860 --> 00:32:41,120
three and a half years at m

743
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,670
particle we are this is what what

744
00:32:43,670 --> 00:32:46,010
is existing this is what's there i

745
00:32:46,010 --> 00:32:47,630
i typically spy on the teams and

746
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,110
give my comments but it took time

747
00:32:51,650 --> 00:32:53,570
for this trust to be built and

748
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,070
and as as you mentioned beef

749
00:32:55,105 --> 00:32:57,470
oregon on yeah i have sleepless nights

750
00:32:57,470 --> 00:33:00,230
because i'm worried about the system or

751
00:33:00,230 --> 00:33:02,840
because there is a a team that's

752
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:04,760
you know building something that i don't

753
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,290
singles in the right direction

754
00:33:07,490 --> 00:33:09,830
but i think it's it's in the

755
00:33:09,830 --> 00:33:13,670
interest long term interest of companies to

756
00:33:13,670 --> 00:33:16,550
bring in deep peels and build this

757
00:33:16,550 --> 00:33:18,080
trust to make sure that what they

758
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,950
build today and for the future goals

759
00:33:21,980 --> 00:33:25,970
in line with how privacy legislation evolves

760
00:33:26,810 --> 00:33:27,470
and so

761
00:33:27,470 --> 00:33:29,480
oh and i'm always a bit worried

762
00:33:29,540 --> 00:33:31,520
as i mentioned before young the pills

763
00:33:31,521 --> 00:33:33,110
they get pushed round and things like

764
00:33:33,110 --> 00:33:35,600
that but that the presence of mind

765
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,750
is always i look at society what

766
00:33:38,750 --> 00:33:40,910
are the consequences of what you're doing

767
00:33:41,270 --> 00:33:44,750
and where could this go nobody thoughts

768
00:33:44,810 --> 00:33:47,630
about the issues that bigger players

769
00:33:47,630 --> 00:33:50,030
day to day bring about for the

770
00:33:50,030 --> 00:33:52,700
democracies of our societies or or the

771
00:33:52,700 --> 00:33:55,970
stability and this is what all these

772
00:33:55,970 --> 00:33:57,350
deep yields need to do is to

773
00:33:57,350 --> 00:33:59,616
make sure that this goals basically in

774
00:33:59,643 --> 00:34:02,330
right direction and so this is why

775
00:34:02,330 --> 00:34:04,130
i wanted to bring this to the

776
00:34:04,130 --> 00:34:07,580
table because it's it's you know the

777
00:34:07,580 --> 00:34:07,790
euro

778
00:34:07,790 --> 00:34:09,830
happiness and institutions like to talk about

779
00:34:09,830 --> 00:34:12,320
risk and gdp are being a risk

780
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,610
based assessment and i agree but risk

781
00:34:16,610 --> 00:34:18,949
for who and for what is often

782
00:34:18,980 --> 00:34:21,139
the first starting point of any kind

783
00:34:21,139 --> 00:34:24,500
of privacy engineering discussion say okay what

784
00:34:24,530 --> 00:34:26,360
what are we talking about what is

785
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:27,949
the context and

786
00:34:27,980 --> 00:34:29,630
how do i see harm and how

787
00:34:29,630 --> 00:34:32,210
can we find balance within the data

788
00:34:32,210 --> 00:34:35,120
flows to make sure that everybody that

789
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,440
is impacted by this not only actors

790
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,480
like michael moore and and and the

791
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,000
company using them but also old data

792
00:34:44,030 --> 00:34:45,110
subjects behind

793
00:34:47,510 --> 00:34:51,320
okay thank you that that's perfect

794
00:34:52,580 --> 00:34:55,580
it's currently two thirty six i'm going

795
00:34:55,580 --> 00:34:57,080
to enter within the topic

796
00:34:58,190 --> 00:35:00,020
which is about

797
00:35:01,100 --> 00:35:03,620
link between the pure and matter more

798
00:35:03,620 --> 00:35:06,440
so i really would like to know

799
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,380
if web analytics tracking tools like metromile

800
00:35:09,950 --> 00:35:12,020
so let's add web analytics in general

801
00:35:12,110 --> 00:35:15,410
okay could say google analytics eighteenth on

802
00:35:15,410 --> 00:35:16,760
that though what what the rules are

803
00:35:17,060 --> 00:35:18,710
out the console you see by the

804
00:35:18,710 --> 00:35:19,220
peel

805
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:23,900
so i would say like information system

806
00:35:23,900 --> 00:35:27,080
who could contain personal data or as

807
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,990
a consider those optional information system to

808
00:35:29,990 --> 00:35:32,240
look up at precisely the moment my

809
00:35:32,243 --> 00:35:35,600
question is that's within the scope of

810
00:35:35,630 --> 00:35:37,670
the pure you probably got a new

811
00:35:37,670 --> 00:35:40,040
ceo him which contain far more

812
00:35:40,430 --> 00:35:43,040
personal data then the web analytics system

813
00:35:43,850 --> 00:35:47,420
newsletter that the basis you probably have

814
00:35:48,170 --> 00:35:52,250
ozone ozone information system out there or

815
00:35:52,256 --> 00:35:54,798
just emails for example and just would

816
00:35:54,798 --> 00:35:57,830
like to know where in the scope

817
00:35:57,830 --> 00:36:00,410
of the deep your mind the location

818
00:36:00,410 --> 00:36:00,590
of

819
00:36:00,590 --> 00:36:02,690
of women that he took system

820
00:36:04,700 --> 00:36:07,850
okay so so typically when we talk

821
00:36:07,850 --> 00:36:11,840
about the obligations of a deep heel

822
00:36:11,930 --> 00:36:14,720
and it sits within the roles of

823
00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:17,390
the company so what kind of role

824
00:36:17,390 --> 00:36:19,550
does that company played paid it it

825
00:36:19,550 --> 00:36:21,500
is a data controller for its own

826
00:36:21,620 --> 00:36:23,240
marketing operations

827
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,070
and then it might be a data

828
00:36:25,070 --> 00:36:27,170
processor for other things it depends on

829
00:36:27,170 --> 00:36:28,160
what the company does

830
00:36:29,780 --> 00:36:32,990
so in that sense typically i think

831
00:36:32,990 --> 00:36:34,730
systems but i might be wrong like

832
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,270
like matter more digital analytics and the

833
00:36:38,270 --> 00:36:40,400
m p c d p's play a

834
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:40,850
role

835
00:36:41,900 --> 00:36:44,900
for marketing operations ideally more honestly i

836
00:36:44,900 --> 00:36:46,130
would i would like to see a

837
00:36:46,130 --> 00:36:48,050
bit more but apparently this is still

838
00:36:48,050 --> 00:36:49,520
like the big game here

839
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,160
and unfortunately there are a plethora of

840
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,070
tools being used by marketing departments

841
00:36:59,150 --> 00:37:02,247
i and these tools also change every

842
00:37:02,247 --> 00:37:03,560
year to three years

843
00:37:05,629 --> 00:37:08,300
and in that sense i think i'll

844
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,700
certainly dps that are are are not

845
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:16,430
technically technical minded and have issues understanding

846
00:37:16,430 --> 00:37:19,580
how all these systems interact what is

847
00:37:19,580 --> 00:37:23,030
clear is that sin certainly needs a

848
00:37:23,030 --> 00:37:24,740
gd pr as he systems

849
00:37:24,830 --> 00:37:27,980
act as data processors for marketing i

850
00:37:27,980 --> 00:37:32,510
think the minimal requirements are typically around

851
00:37:32,570 --> 00:37:34,949
this idea of having a contract or

852
00:37:34,970 --> 00:37:38,240
data protection agreements and and making sure

853
00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:40,490
that these international data flows work well

854
00:37:41,450 --> 00:37:43,580
and it also depends i mean matter

855
00:37:43,580 --> 00:37:44,990
moyes have very specific to

856
00:37:44,990 --> 00:37:46,499
cool in the sense that it's not

857
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,850
a sas solution and in in that

858
00:37:49,850 --> 00:37:52,070
sense it also you know it depends

859
00:37:52,070 --> 00:37:54,440
whether there's an appetite from the company

860
00:37:54,500 --> 00:37:57,290
to actually invest resources and making sure

861
00:37:57,290 --> 00:37:59,960
that they can set this up and

862
00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:01,550
have this up and running inside their

863
00:38:01,550 --> 00:38:02,180
systems

864
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:04,940
so i think for dps if i

865
00:38:04,940 --> 00:38:07,400
had to answer this question from that

866
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,340
specific angle do they care if they

867
00:38:10,340 --> 00:38:12,320
understand what's going on in marketing and

868
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,640
start digging a bit probably yes and

869
00:38:16,940 --> 00:38:20,840
does it facilitate do certain stances with

870
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,390
respect to privacy facilitates

871
00:38:24,020 --> 00:38:26,661
and the the the the audit and

872
00:38:26,661 --> 00:38:29,300
the audit passing by a privacy office

873
00:38:29,300 --> 00:38:31,040
of a tool like moto moto mo

874
00:38:31,130 --> 00:38:34,550
certainly but it's not the only aspect

875
00:38:34,550 --> 00:38:36,590
so how much does this way in

876
00:38:36,590 --> 00:38:39,830
the risk exercise of the company is

877
00:38:39,830 --> 00:38:40,670
a big question

878
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,220
that answer your question kind of yeah

879
00:38:46,220 --> 00:38:49,160
yeah absolutely of sergei of menus else

880
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,650
in mind i'm just trying to look

881
00:38:51,650 --> 00:38:54,860
at the time and think about the

882
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:56,810
number of slide that they have left

883
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,940
and as we're leaving some space for

884
00:38:59,270 --> 00:39:01,460
an audience to ask some questions

885
00:39:02,450 --> 00:39:07,040
but yeah that's that's answering a question

886
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:08,900
bits raising so many in my head

887
00:39:08,990 --> 00:39:11,720
that it's a well it's a it's

888
00:39:11,720 --> 00:39:14,720
a challenge the next question is about

889
00:39:15,590 --> 00:39:18,290
this one and i think it's very

890
00:39:18,290 --> 00:39:19,905
linked to do and so little would

891
00:39:19,905 --> 00:39:22,190
you provided us which is a do

892
00:39:22,190 --> 00:39:24,140
the dp will make a difference between

893
00:39:24,140 --> 00:39:28,010
proprietary software and free software because us

894
00:39:28,070 --> 00:39:30,650
up then it's within the tamil community

895
00:39:30,650 --> 00:39:32,750
make clearly a difference between the two

896
00:39:33,110 --> 00:39:36,290
that i would've affected swimming with what

897
00:39:36,290 --> 00:39:38,180
you just said with data flows but

898
00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:39,671
i really would like you to insult

899
00:39:39,746 --> 00:39:41,420
this one does it make a difference

900
00:39:41,420 --> 00:39:42,164
between appropriate

901
00:39:42,380 --> 00:39:45,746
software and free software well i i

902
00:39:45,746 --> 00:39:49,280
think our last interaction on twitter clearly

903
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,220
shows that certain dps like me think

904
00:39:52,220 --> 00:39:55,280
in terms of sass and then it's

905
00:39:55,286 --> 00:39:59,270
like alright free software that's that's totally

906
00:39:59,270 --> 00:40:00,170
different ballgame

907
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,200
because what i mentioned before it was

908
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,900
like what would your dpl ask for

909
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,780
from any sass tool is i want

910
00:40:08,990 --> 00:40:11,300
a data protection agreements and i want

911
00:40:11,300 --> 00:40:13,370
to make sure that their standard contractual

912
00:40:13,370 --> 00:40:15,260
clauses to make sure that my international

913
00:40:15,260 --> 00:40:17,600
data transfer are as local as possible

914
00:40:18,530 --> 00:40:21,470
comes in free software that

915
00:40:21,470 --> 00:40:25,250
self-hosted where you want so as standard

916
00:40:25,250 --> 00:40:28,100
contractual clause doesn't make sense and a

917
00:40:28,100 --> 00:40:30,560
dp eight doesn't really make sense anymore

918
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,490
either because there's no intermediary the question

919
00:40:34,490 --> 00:40:36,410
i think that will start to rise

920
00:40:36,410 --> 00:40:39,380
however here and it's it's it's also

921
00:40:39,380 --> 00:40:41,630
the case for sas but to

922
00:40:41,630 --> 00:40:45,860
privacy by design functionalities what is needed

923
00:40:45,890 --> 00:40:47,540
and this is also what what i've

924
00:40:47,540 --> 00:40:49,700
done most over the last certainty eighteen

925
00:40:49,700 --> 00:40:50,210
months

926
00:40:51,810 --> 00:40:54,330
complex systems is as this is a

927
00:40:54,330 --> 00:40:58,320
system that helps a data controller what

928
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,660
does that system need to do to

929
00:41:00,660 --> 00:41:06,090
assure that it supports the compliance obligations

930
00:41:06,180 --> 00:41:07,890
of the data controller so the matter

931
00:41:07,890 --> 00:41:11,910
more customers a typical example would be

932
00:41:11,910 --> 00:41:15,180
we are certainly also following apple's eighty

933
00:41:15,180 --> 00:41:20,100
ti consent status does it actually applaud

934
00:41:20,250 --> 00:41:22,170
the lawful basis for processing and the

935
00:41:22,170 --> 00:41:24,000
fact that yes or no we agreed

936
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,610
we didn't agree those terrible banners for

937
00:41:26,610 --> 00:41:29,310
a privacy and things like that does

938
00:41:29,310 --> 00:41:31,830
it defined purpose do we know what's

939
00:41:31,830 --> 00:41:32,070
that

940
00:41:32,100 --> 00:41:35,220
specific data point is about and certainly

941
00:41:35,220 --> 00:41:36,510
if you want to do more with

942
00:41:36,510 --> 00:41:39,240
that data can we use these fields

943
00:41:39,240 --> 00:41:40,170
to pass a month

944
00:41:41,220 --> 00:41:43,470
by seeing these are kind of conversations

945
00:41:43,470 --> 00:41:46,020
that need to happen today i'm focusing

946
00:41:46,020 --> 00:41:49,290
on privacy by design because also i

947
00:41:49,290 --> 00:41:51,060
mean matter more doesn't exist in a

948
00:41:51,060 --> 00:41:53,400
vacuum it is part of something that

949
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,010
is them doing something else and so

950
00:41:56,010 --> 00:41:58,800
these conversations about what do i need

951
00:41:59,130 --> 00:42:01,350
inside my tool to make

952
00:42:01,380 --> 00:42:05,250
sure that i interface correctly with how

953
00:42:05,340 --> 00:42:09,570
data subjects exercise their choices and also

954
00:42:09,570 --> 00:42:11,402
making sure that through the pipeline of

955
00:42:11,402 --> 00:42:14,880
the data these choices are respected and

956
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,030
if at the same time data subjects

957
00:42:18,090 --> 00:42:20,221
exercise their rights which is kind of

958
00:42:20,221 --> 00:42:21,510
the big one in the gdp

959
00:42:21,540 --> 00:42:23,880
yds not new but it's bigger i

960
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,310
also have the capabilities of doing that

961
00:42:27,240 --> 00:42:28,800
but i think this is like the

962
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:33,840
big challenge for most companies and sites

963
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:35,910
or free software is to start looking

964
00:42:35,910 --> 00:42:38,100
at what does privacy by design mean

965
00:42:38,100 --> 00:42:39,480
and what do i need to do

966
00:42:39,990 --> 00:42:41,670
for my customers you

967
00:42:41,670 --> 00:42:44,610
he mentioned other tools out there while

968
00:42:44,610 --> 00:42:47,940
the french tools they take different stances

969
00:42:47,970 --> 00:42:48,900
than others

970
00:42:50,100 --> 00:42:51,810
so you could imagine for example a

971
00:42:51,810 --> 00:42:55,110
tool saying and i do not forward

972
00:42:55,110 --> 00:42:58,230
this data if there's no consent is

973
00:42:58,230 --> 00:42:59,610
that the choice of the tool to

974
00:42:59,610 --> 00:43:00,960
say that or is it up to

975
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:01,710
the customer

976
00:43:02,820 --> 00:43:05,970
so these kind of discussions and stances

977
00:43:05,970 --> 00:43:09,360
are taking place depending on you know

978
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,130
the the the risk appetite of the

979
00:43:11,130 --> 00:43:13,650
company how their contracts are being set

980
00:43:13,650 --> 00:43:15,180
up and things like that but these

981
00:43:15,180 --> 00:43:17,430
are kind of the conversations that a

982
00:43:17,430 --> 00:43:19,380
tool also needs to decide to say

983
00:43:19,380 --> 00:43:22,860
okay where do i position myself do

984
00:43:22,860 --> 00:43:22,950
i

985
00:43:22,950 --> 00:43:24,660
i want to be extremely strict in

986
00:43:24,660 --> 00:43:27,270
terms of privacy or do i prefer

987
00:43:27,270 --> 00:43:29,040
not to cut myself off from other

988
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:33,660
business opportunities leaving more responsibility to my

989
00:43:33,660 --> 00:43:36,900
customers these are more ethical discussions to

990
00:43:36,900 --> 00:43:38,970
be had but they need to take

991
00:43:38,970 --> 00:43:39,420
place

992
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:42,540
okay

993
00:43:43,620 --> 00:43:46,680
thank you very much and i'm looking

994
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:48,600
at how many quit okay i just

995
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,370
have one question left which is great

996
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,590
because we have five minutes left

997
00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:56,190
i was on the risk of personal

998
00:43:56,190 --> 00:43:59,790
data infringements fallen into dish did i

999
00:43:59,790 --> 00:44:02,610
write this question i cannot even understand

1000
00:44:02,610 --> 00:44:04,620
it myself without the risk of go

1001
00:44:04,740 --> 00:44:05,760
for an entity

1002
00:44:07,530 --> 00:44:09,420
do you understand this question because i

1003
00:44:09,420 --> 00:44:12,420
don't understand it myself than i should

1004
00:44:12,420 --> 00:44:15,570
have preferred it without the risk of

1005
00:44:15,570 --> 00:44:17,040
personal finance

1006
00:44:19,260 --> 00:44:21,690
okay we talked a bit about the

1007
00:44:21,690 --> 00:44:24,480
notion of risk and and the underlying

1008
00:44:24,780 --> 00:44:27,240
bits of the iceberg with respect to

1009
00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:29,160
search data subject rights

1010
00:44:30,540 --> 00:44:31,354
i

1011
00:44:34,650 --> 00:44:37,350
yeah i think i have something in

1012
00:44:37,350 --> 00:44:38,850
mind when i write that i didn't

1013
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,270
proofread this question just would like to

1014
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,480
be sure that the audiences got the

1015
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,670
opportunity to ask questions so i will

1016
00:44:47,700 --> 00:44:50,880
let the chuck goes on for the

1017
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:52,530
next those thirty seconds

1018
00:44:52,830 --> 00:44:54,390
so i can see that we of

1019
00:44:54,390 --> 00:44:56,070
different people in the church we have

1020
00:44:56,070 --> 00:44:59,010
macros we have seen evolve we have

1021
00:44:59,100 --> 00:45:02,100
many other people if you have any

1022
00:45:02,100 --> 00:45:05,640
questions please feel free to ask one

1023
00:45:06,060 --> 00:45:08,280
or either already do you have any

1024
00:45:08,310 --> 00:45:10,320
any question that you expected me to

1025
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,180
ask you or that you would like

1026
00:45:12,180 --> 00:45:12,870
the audience to

1027
00:45:12,930 --> 00:45:16,350
ask you about specific sing

1028
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,930
no not not specifically i think we

1029
00:45:21,930 --> 00:45:23,370
we ran through our

1030
00:45:25,170 --> 00:45:25,830
oh

1031
00:45:27,240 --> 00:45:30,960
we got trois yeah people are willing

1032
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,060
to pursue a career as as peel

1033
00:45:33,270 --> 00:45:35,340
and it depends a bit on your

1034
00:45:35,460 --> 00:45:36,870
and your background i think

1035
00:45:38,310 --> 00:45:40,830
there are more and more jumper offers

1036
00:45:40,860 --> 00:45:44,010
out there but they often require some

1037
00:45:44,010 --> 00:45:51,420
form of either a certification or experience

1038
00:45:52,740 --> 00:45:57,150
and so there are certifications out there

1039
00:45:57,810 --> 00:45:59,250
the i e p p has a

1040
00:45:59,250 --> 00:46:01,920
couple of them and they often font

1041
00:46:01,936 --> 00:46:06,900
find themselves and insights and the job

1042
00:46:06,900 --> 00:46:09,570
offers that i read as i mentioned

1043
00:46:09,570 --> 00:46:11,970
also i teach at maastricht university they

1044
00:46:11,970 --> 00:46:12,630
do dps

1045
00:46:12,660 --> 00:46:13,680
certifications

1046
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,700
i'm i'm hiring as well so i'm

1047
00:46:17,700 --> 00:46:20,460
looking for people so if you're interested

1048
00:46:20,460 --> 00:46:21,750
i'm happy to have a chat

1049
00:46:22,950 --> 00:46:25,380
i do i think yeah more more

1050
00:46:25,380 --> 00:46:27,307
job offers for dps

1051
00:46:28,470 --> 00:46:30,210
but it's it's about you know getting

1052
00:46:30,210 --> 00:46:32,790
your your foot in the door and

1053
00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:36,681
start building some form of of of

1054
00:46:36,690 --> 00:46:39,360
knowledge around the the topic as well

1055
00:46:39,420 --> 00:46:43,650
if your lawyer actually helps but i'm

1056
00:46:43,650 --> 00:46:44,580
happy to help as well

1057
00:46:48,060 --> 00:46:48,600
okay

1058
00:46:50,670 --> 00:46:53,490
i cannot see any any questions left

1059
00:46:54,390 --> 00:46:58,350
on small officers another one actually personal

1060
00:46:58,350 --> 00:47:02,130
responsibility oh yeah absolutely it's a very

1061
00:47:02,130 --> 00:47:06,270
good question that was often debated and

1062
00:47:06,390 --> 00:47:08,610
and actually if you look at the

1063
00:47:08,610 --> 00:47:09,570
gd pr

1064
00:47:09,990 --> 00:47:12,240
and there is another role which has

1065
00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:13,890
the raw representative

1066
00:47:15,030 --> 00:47:17,430
and a representative you have to look

1067
00:47:17,430 --> 00:47:18,600
it up in the gdp i don't

1068
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,210
remember the the article but is the

1069
00:47:21,210 --> 00:47:24,330
person that's going to represent to accompany

1070
00:47:24,330 --> 00:47:25,170
if they don't have

1071
00:47:26,490 --> 00:47:30,450
a foothold basically inside a certain country

1072
00:47:31,170 --> 00:47:35,190
there's more discussions about legal responsibility for

1073
00:47:35,190 --> 00:47:39,150
representatives than for dps and i think

1074
00:47:39,150 --> 00:47:41,970
it would be also counter productive to

1075
00:47:41,970 --> 00:47:45,810
talk about potential responsibility for for dps

1076
00:47:45,870 --> 00:47:46,380
because

1077
00:47:46,470 --> 00:47:48,840
i i i've seen the the conversations

1078
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,210
about representatives and people are just walking

1079
00:47:51,210 --> 00:47:52,440
away to say i don't want that

1080
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:54,720
liability i don't want it but i

1081
00:47:54,720 --> 00:47:57,600
don't think that as such a dps

1082
00:47:57,660 --> 00:47:59,760
have some form of a responsibility or

1083
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,640
liability but on the other hand they

1084
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:04,350
are responsible for it in front of

1085
00:48:04,350 --> 00:48:06,540
the supervisory authorities to answer any kinds

1086
00:48:06,540 --> 00:48:06,630
of

1087
00:48:06,660 --> 00:48:10,410
questions and this is still in discussion

1088
00:48:10,410 --> 00:48:12,510
and in in making do

1089
00:48:13,170 --> 00:48:15,000
i think if we're talking about some

1090
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:16,920
form of a responsibility or a certain

1091
00:48:16,974 --> 00:48:21,720
liability there is conversations about more civil

1092
00:48:21,720 --> 00:48:25,710
liability for decision makers so seals and

1093
00:48:25,710 --> 00:48:28,110
things like that or criminal liability i

1094
00:48:28,110 --> 00:48:30,570
think the conversation will go there not

1095
00:48:30,660 --> 00:48:32,850
dps because that would be kind of

1096
00:48:33,060 --> 00:48:35,520
shooting the subjected in the foot

1097
00:48:37,380 --> 00:48:38,010
but we'll see

1098
00:48:40,980 --> 00:48:43,560
perfect and on small thank you very

1099
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,740
much for being with us today to

1100
00:48:46,740 --> 00:48:49,770
spend some time just retina the room

1101
00:48:50,130 --> 00:48:52,410
with all the different questions we'd be

1102
00:48:52,410 --> 00:48:54,690
on until the end of the events

1103
00:48:54,690 --> 00:48:56,790
on his head this evening so if

1104
00:48:56,790 --> 00:48:59,190
you have some free time left of

1105
00:48:59,190 --> 00:49:00,240
feel free to have a look at

1106
00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:03,000
it maybe some new questions will come

1107
00:49:04,290 --> 00:49:06,450
if you will have time which was

1108
00:49:06,450 --> 00:49:07,950
totally understand of course

1109
00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:10,170
should free tuf

1110
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:12,780
to to leave it and i will

1111
00:49:12,780 --> 00:49:14,400
send you the the questions mate you

1112
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,800
made if i got them and for

1113
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,350
the audience i remembered that the speaker

1114
00:49:19,410 --> 00:49:21,660
was all hindi poets and that you

1115
00:49:21,660 --> 00:49:23,940
can easily find her on a very

1116
00:49:23,940 --> 00:49:26,580
famous options zine because she's kind of

1117
00:49:26,670 --> 00:49:29,310
the expert in the world dealing with

1118
00:49:29,460 --> 00:49:31,350
privacy a privacy concern

1119
00:49:31,350 --> 00:49:34,350
since i thank you very much orange

1120
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,390
thank you for everything thank you for

1121
00:49:36,390 --> 00:49:38,700
having me thank you for listening and

1122
00:49:38,700 --> 00:49:41,280
if there are any any questions this

1123
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,320
is also how we all learn please

1124
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:46,410
feel free keep in touch and have

1125
00:49:46,410 --> 00:49:48,660
a good conference went on thank you

1126
00:49:48,660 --> 00:49:50,130
for having me thank you

1127
00:49:51,270 --> 00:49:53,610
the next conference would be in nine

1128
00:49:53,610 --> 00:49:55,080
minutes from now cause there is only

1129
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,390
one on the schedule that i can

1130
00:49:57,390 --> 00:50:00,300
see this one will be made by

1131
00:50:00,450 --> 00:50:03,210
continue you by and myself even if

1132
00:50:03,210 --> 00:50:05,100
i will have just the minor roles

1133
00:50:05,490 --> 00:50:07,710
in it it's about using that mode

1134
00:50:07,710 --> 00:50:10,770
to collect data on intervention engagement within

1135
00:50:10,770 --> 00:50:11,400
the results

1136
00:50:11,700 --> 00:50:14,839
triodos food so use case from a

1137
00:50:14,839 --> 00:50:17,040
a client of mine so the clients

1138
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:19,320
will talk about this project and i

1139
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,290
will come within the conference and explain

1140
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,180
how we did with the project management

1141
00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:26,940
but we have met so useful