1 00:00:00,270 --> 00:00:08,160 the okay so i guess so we 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,310 are good to go and so on 3 00:00:11,700 --> 00:00:13,320 the festival as thank you very much 4 00:00:13,380 --> 00:00:16,590 although choosing the sir these conferences thank 5 00:00:16,590 --> 00:00:19,080 you very much already for being reverse 6 00:00:19,080 --> 00:00:20,040 her to death 7 00:00:20,490 --> 00:00:22,170 i have to say that already has 8 00:00:22,170 --> 00:00:25,294 been that the first the speaker that 9 00:00:25,294 --> 00:00:26,880 they asked her to come to metal 10 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,450 boot camp were directly accepted so i 11 00:00:30,450 --> 00:00:31,830 would like to thank you once more 12 00:00:31,830 --> 00:00:34,350 for being sore lets out reactive so 13 00:00:34,350 --> 00:00:36,870 positive and to have the will of 14 00:00:37,110 --> 00:00:40,200 being reversed today and this conference to 15 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:40,320 be 16 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,480 no different than the different one that 17 00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:45,060 we got over the last hours because 18 00:00:45,060 --> 00:00:48,420 this conference is an interview so it's 19 00:00:48,420 --> 00:00:50,640 probably the only one in addition to 20 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,070 the one table that we other yesterday 21 00:00:53,070 --> 00:00:55,680 we've had a different matter more expert 22 00:00:55,950 --> 00:00:57,810 saw the concept of an interview of 23 00:00:57,810 --> 00:00:59,730 course is to ask some questions 24 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,310 already prepare some question that i will 25 00:01:02,328 --> 00:01:04,440 ask her to or already to there 26 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,290 so those question will be shown on 27 00:01:07,290 --> 00:01:08,940 the screen as you cannot see it 28 00:01:08,940 --> 00:01:11,370 right now those slides are done mai 29 00:01:11,370 --> 00:01:13,440 mai sorrowful cared those are not done 30 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,750 by valeri so that's why you will 31 00:01:15,750 --> 00:01:18,060 see the diary not lead that mature 32 00:01:18,570 --> 00:01:20,460 beauty fall is just that i'm not 33 00:01:20,790 --> 00:01:22,530 i'm not an artist when they designed 34 00:01:22,530 --> 00:01:24,870 the slides and if you like care 35 00:01:24,875 --> 00:01:27,240 to ask any questions to her on 36 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:29,490 a leash please use a shut that 37 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,430 mathml camp that olga and you will 38 00:01:32,430 --> 00:01:34,500 have the possibility to act as a 39 00:01:34,500 --> 00:01:36,210 reply your questions toilet is why we 40 00:01:36,210 --> 00:01:37,830 look at them pick them up and 41 00:01:37,830 --> 00:01:40,500 ask them to oily on safe finish 42 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,440 to present the different questions that they 43 00:01:43,470 --> 00:01:44,130 that they prepare 44 00:01:46,230 --> 00:01:47,880 an small thank you thank you for 45 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:49,740 having me first of all as well 46 00:01:49,861 --> 00:01:52,830 ananta and i'm excited about all the 47 00:01:52,830 --> 00:01:56,100 conversations also taking place around gd pr 48 00:01:56,100 --> 00:02:01,800 compliance pii personal data and privacy i 49 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,740 think it's an important topic and so 50 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:05,520 i want 51 00:02:05,550 --> 00:02:08,250 the two shared it's visions of the 52 00:02:08,250 --> 00:02:11,310 future as well discussions about risk so 53 00:02:11,790 --> 00:02:14,430 let's look at going let's go 54 00:02:15,660 --> 00:02:17,490 a soul the topic name is how 55 00:02:17,490 --> 00:02:19,680 does risk for the or differ from 56 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,500 classical risk of perception and the first 57 00:02:22,500 --> 00:02:25,020 question i would like to ask you 58 00:02:25,020 --> 00:02:28,110 already is the following one could you 59 00:02:28,110 --> 00:02:31,200 please introduce your search your audience and 60 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,620 explain what your job position consist of 61 00:02:35,370 --> 00:02:35,760 shock 62 00:02:36,060 --> 00:02:40,290 i so i introducing myself he asked 63 00:02:40,290 --> 00:02:41,940 me the question why i came from 64 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,910 i am dutch french speaking have lived 65 00:02:44,910 --> 00:02:47,100 a long time in brussels where i 66 00:02:47,100 --> 00:02:51,000 did my economics and economic studies and 67 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:52,020 then moved to spain 68 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,410 i have been in the digital analytics 69 00:02:55,410 --> 00:02:58,620 sphere since around two thousand where a 70 00:02:58,620 --> 00:03:01,470 web trends log analyzer six landed on 71 00:03:01,470 --> 00:03:04,680 my desk and i was asked to 72 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:08,490 well find insights with that tool with 73 00:03:08,490 --> 00:03:11,670 a lot of flash websites and at 74 00:03:11,670 --> 00:03:13,130 the time and it was also the 75 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:17,280 time of service and google analytics came 76 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,290 a lot later at least for my 77 00:03:19,290 --> 00:03:22,650 career i it was partially a game 78 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,750 changer on different levels but it also 79 00:03:24,750 --> 00:03:27,870 worried me in terms of privacy and 80 00:03:27,870 --> 00:03:30,570 how much data we were collecting and 81 00:03:30,570 --> 00:03:33,360 also integrating a stitching 82 00:03:33,390 --> 00:03:36,000 together and and so i started looking 83 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,060 also at some at privacy certainly after 84 00:03:39,060 --> 00:03:41,400 we sold our startup in belgium called 85 00:03:41,430 --> 00:03:43,590 like two two lps digital lp i 86 00:03:43,590 --> 00:03:45,000 digitized in the uk 87 00:03:46,380 --> 00:03:51,000 and so once my children were small 88 00:03:51,383 --> 00:03:53,490 i created a family and started looking 89 00:03:53,490 --> 00:03:55,800 at this thing called td pr and 90 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,950 following the progression of that legislation it 91 00:03:58,950 --> 00:04:03,270 took five years and started also to 92 00:04:03,270 --> 00:04:05,850 understand how the lawyers who are talking 93 00:04:05,850 --> 00:04:06,240 because 94 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,490 i didn't have a legal background at 95 00:04:08,490 --> 00:04:11,250 all i am now very happy that 96 00:04:11,250 --> 00:04:13,290 i can actually quote certain articles of 97 00:04:13,290 --> 00:04:14,160 the gd pr 98 00:04:15,810 --> 00:04:18,060 out of my mind hurricane because i 99 00:04:18,060 --> 00:04:21,899 use it so much and today i 100 00:04:21,899 --> 00:04:25,170 have my own consultancy and i have 101 00:04:25,170 --> 00:04:27,810 basically three pillars in there on the 102 00:04:27,810 --> 00:04:29,400 one hand side i am a g 103 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,240 p o official data protection officer for 104 00:04:33,300 --> 00:04:35,520 a customer data platform called and particle 105 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:36,750 based out of new york 106 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,680 on the other hand i also teach 107 00:04:40,740 --> 00:04:44,040 dpl courses for different university of which 108 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:45,780 the university of massachusetts 109 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:48,930 are they also created the european centre 110 00:04:48,930 --> 00:04:51,420 for privacy and cybersecurity so it's not 111 00:04:51,420 --> 00:04:52,800 just me it's a bunch of very 112 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,290 smart people that all come with different 113 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,380 angles and we talk about digitization of 114 00:04:58,380 --> 00:05:02,760 our societies we teach in those courses 115 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,370 and some of my colleagues from maastricht 116 00:05:05,370 --> 00:05:06,960 university are this weekend 117 00:05:07,020 --> 00:05:10,920 senegal to teach about gd pr so 118 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,140 it's it's about making sure that this 119 00:05:13,140 --> 00:05:17,520 idea of privacy legislation enshrined within the 120 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,030 gp are also in it influences global 121 00:05:21,030 --> 00:05:22,890 thinking and this is what we're seeing 122 00:05:22,890 --> 00:05:25,950 gdp as a blueprint and my last 123 00:05:25,950 --> 00:05:27,120 pillar is i was 124 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,660 work for european institutions and i worked 125 00:05:30,660 --> 00:05:33,360 on ethics for the european data protection 126 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,410 supervisor their ethical advisory boards back in 127 00:05:37,410 --> 00:05:40,560 two thousand and sixteen so when basically 128 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:42,180 the ink was dry on the gdp 129 00:05:42,180 --> 00:05:45,930 our european institutions were asking themselves what's 130 00:05:45,930 --> 00:05:46,590 next 131 00:05:47,310 --> 00:05:49,110 and this is what we're seeing today 132 00:05:49,110 --> 00:05:51,810 with initiatives by for example terrible dawn 133 00:05:52,230 --> 00:05:52,740 with 134 00:05:53,790 --> 00:05:55,950 the different acronyms that are coming out 135 00:05:56,610 --> 00:06:00,360 of the digital services act and and 136 00:06:00,420 --> 00:06:03,060 and other governance acts are currently being 137 00:06:03,060 --> 00:06:05,700 discussed on on top of discussions about 138 00:06:05,700 --> 00:06:09,106 artificial intelligence and this while the supervisory 139 00:06:09,106 --> 00:06:11,220 resources are ramping up to make sure 140 00:06:11,220 --> 00:06:13,470 that they can enforce the gd pr 141 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:15,930 we're also seeing more complains so these 142 00:06:15,930 --> 00:06:17,820 are basically the three pillars where i 143 00:06:17,820 --> 00:06:21,240 sit about my official job position as 144 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:22,800 such that we're going to talk about 145 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,740 here is as data protection officer for 146 00:06:25,770 --> 00:06:27,990 a sas platform based out of the 147 00:06:27,990 --> 00:06:28,560 us 148 00:06:30,660 --> 00:06:34,080 okay thanks very much i'm sorry there 149 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:35,790 is one question that i didn't have 150 00:06:35,790 --> 00:06:38,040 a plan but just by the lets 151 00:06:38,043 --> 00:06:39,360 at the end so that you gift 152 00:06:39,390 --> 00:06:42,930 this question make me sink about so 153 00:06:42,930 --> 00:06:44,610 feel free of cost to himself or 154 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,880 twitter or not you mention web trance 155 00:06:47,897 --> 00:06:49,230 i just would like to know back 156 00:06:49,230 --> 00:06:49,920 in the days 157 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,310 is what happened in in the the 158 00:06:53,310 --> 00:06:57,179 way analytic solution evolve where you really 159 00:06:57,179 --> 00:07:02,280 realize that's the privacy concerns started i 160 00:07:02,280 --> 00:07:04,950 mean at which point did the solution 161 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,470 evolved that much that it started to 162 00:07:07,470 --> 00:07:09,930 be a privacy concern 163 00:07:10,830 --> 00:07:13,260 amen i'm sorry i have to rephrase 164 00:07:13,260 --> 00:07:15,690 it but according to you when all 165 00:07:15,690 --> 00:07:18,660 the years at which led to citizens 166 00:07:18,690 --> 00:07:20,760 all is a good omen started to 167 00:07:21,090 --> 00:07:23,790 to start to care about privacy because 168 00:07:23,790 --> 00:07:25,250 i guess the back in the day 169 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,260 webtrends people were not sinking as much 170 00:07:28,260 --> 00:07:30,240 as the let's a cell ready 171 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,250 an saw analytic system or anything anything 172 00:07:32,517 --> 00:07:34,165 this was just for them nika a 173 00:07:34,231 --> 00:07:37,050 software for the eighty guys that sir 174 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,720 but not for marketers and that may 175 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,720 be used in terms of raising what 176 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,840 citizens are doing and and and at 177 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,360 what point did you realize the day 178 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:50,400 is clearly a privacy concern which is 179 00:07:50,460 --> 00:07:52,140 raising that that's my question 180 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,286 well i i think generally speaking there's 181 00:07:55,286 --> 00:07:57,570 a difference between me and and then 182 00:07:57,570 --> 00:08:00,600 you know the public in general and 183 00:08:00,750 --> 00:08:04,230 i remember back in two thousand reading 184 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,680 a newspaper articles i think was a 185 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:09,960 new york times that talked about this 186 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,390 idea that cookies could be shared between 187 00:08:12,390 --> 00:08:13,170 websites 188 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,230 and so that profiles could be built 189 00:08:16,260 --> 00:08:18,960 and the fact that you know advertisers 190 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:23,220 could target people that are interested in 191 00:08:23,310 --> 00:08:24,600 i think it was the n b 192 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,780 a but also read financial reports 193 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:30,712 and so this idea of profiling was 194 00:08:30,712 --> 00:08:33,690 started starting to to kind of arise 195 00:08:33,690 --> 00:08:35,460 for those who are paying attention the 196 00:08:35,460 --> 00:08:38,789 thing is market share in advertising for 197 00:08:38,789 --> 00:08:41,460 digital took a long time to evolve 198 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:43,890 and so if we're talking about the 199 00:08:44,100 --> 00:08:47,040 early two thousands were also we had 200 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,190 the dot com bust and we're not 201 00:08:50,190 --> 00:08:52,620 talking about you know a broad range 202 00:08:52,620 --> 00:08:55,590 of surveillance mechanisms because basically not a 203 00:08:55,590 --> 00:08:57,690 lot of people were were actually online 204 00:08:59,340 --> 00:09:01,290 so that that's one part so these 205 00:09:01,290 --> 00:09:03,300 these issues have arisen 206 00:09:04,350 --> 00:09:06,870 certainty from for the last twenty years 207 00:09:06,870 --> 00:09:08,790 this is not new the thing the 208 00:09:08,790 --> 00:09:11,970 biggest and how should i say er 209 00:09:13,410 --> 00:09:16,020 alarm bell that was was really i 210 00:09:16,020 --> 00:09:18,690 think something important that was not noticed 211 00:09:18,690 --> 00:09:20,790 a lot but is refer to very 212 00:09:20,790 --> 00:09:23,250 often and more recently in the last 213 00:09:23,250 --> 00:09:26,790 three years is the acquisition of doubleclick 214 00:09:26,790 --> 00:09:27,360 by google 215 00:09:28,560 --> 00:09:30,960 i think this really hot 216 00:09:32,850 --> 00:09:36,210 an important consequence that we see today 217 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,730 because it's it's not just about privacy 218 00:09:38,730 --> 00:09:41,340 it's certainly about while the market share 219 00:09:41,370 --> 00:09:44,550 it's about antitrust legislation it's about competition 220 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,210 and there was actually in dissenting opinion 221 00:09:48,330 --> 00:09:51,840 for the acquisition of doubleclick by google 222 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,230 by somebody called pamela harbour which you 223 00:09:55,230 --> 00:09:57,270 can still find online today and when 224 00:09:57,330 --> 00:09:59,190 you read that document from two thousand 225 00:09:59,190 --> 00:10:02,220 and seven so almost fifteen years ago 226 00:10:02,220 --> 00:10:04,560 you realize that basic issues describing what 227 00:10:04,710 --> 00:10:06,300 we are witnessing today 228 00:10:07,905 --> 00:10:09,525 so privacy is one part of this 229 00:10:09,525 --> 00:10:11,205 the gdp rs one part of this 230 00:10:11,235 --> 00:10:14,685 accountability but antitrust and competition are going 231 00:10:14,685 --> 00:10:18,315 to play increasing roles and last week 232 00:10:18,315 --> 00:10:19,935 i was also at the university of 233 00:10:19,935 --> 00:10:22,785 toulouse because i worked for the european 234 00:10:22,785 --> 00:10:26,295 institutions and the observatory of the platform 235 00:10:26,325 --> 00:10:28,035 economy and 236 00:10:28,035 --> 00:10:30,632 that's what we are witnessing today is 237 00:10:30,705 --> 00:10:35,145 platform ization of services where certain of 238 00:10:35,145 --> 00:10:38,385 the actors have very important market share 239 00:10:38,385 --> 00:10:40,935 and influence other actors and the question 240 00:10:40,935 --> 00:10:42,135 is okay what are we going to 241 00:10:42,135 --> 00:10:44,115 do about that because these are going 242 00:10:44,115 --> 00:10:46,635 to be the next challenges so they're 243 00:10:46,635 --> 00:10:48,195 not new questions 244 00:10:48,195 --> 00:10:51,075 it's the gdp doesn't solve for everything 245 00:10:52,065 --> 00:10:54,225 but it's it's it's a milestone in 246 00:10:54,225 --> 00:10:57,195 her goals towards trying to balance out 247 00:10:57,285 --> 00:11:00,315 the use of data the digitization of 248 00:11:00,315 --> 00:11:04,665 our societies together with the opportunities that 249 00:11:04,665 --> 00:11:06,825 are there for the businesses but also 250 00:11:06,825 --> 00:11:08,355 making sure sure that for 251 00:11:08,355 --> 00:11:11,865 fundamental rights are respected and whether that 252 00:11:11,865 --> 00:11:15,705 fundamental rights is privacy the right did 253 00:11:15,738 --> 00:11:18,345 freedom of expression there are different rights 254 00:11:18,495 --> 00:11:20,865 also battling in in this changing our 255 00:11:20,865 --> 00:11:24,105 societies so it's it's a journey we 256 00:11:24,135 --> 00:11:25,875 we are not done yet and we'll 257 00:11:25,875 --> 00:11:28,515 see where we go okay saying 258 00:11:28,545 --> 00:11:32,235 sure much i repeated for audiences but 259 00:11:32,295 --> 00:11:33,765 if for some of you guys who 260 00:11:33,768 --> 00:11:35,715 like to ask some question too early 261 00:11:35,715 --> 00:11:37,575 please feel free to go and shut 262 00:11:37,635 --> 00:11:39,615 that matter will come the oxalic the 263 00:11:39,615 --> 00:11:42,225 womb which correspond to this conference and 264 00:11:42,255 --> 00:11:44,535 asked the director your questions to unleash 265 00:11:44,565 --> 00:11:45,855 and they would pick them up 266 00:11:46,995 --> 00:11:50,685 the next question is said to one 267 00:11:50,685 --> 00:11:52,665 of the earth of the question of 268 00:11:52,665 --> 00:11:55,185 the topic today could you please explain 269 00:11:55,185 --> 00:11:57,945 to our audience what the dp also 270 00:11:57,945 --> 00:11:59,265 i'm not going to give the definition 271 00:11:59,265 --> 00:12:01,665 and purpose here what the dpr is 272 00:12:01,665 --> 00:12:02,235 about 273 00:12:03,795 --> 00:12:06,945 yeah so so a dpl is on 274 00:12:07,065 --> 00:12:10,185 a roll that has been brought to 275 00:12:10,185 --> 00:12:11,895 life through the judy pr 276 00:12:13,065 --> 00:12:18,255 and is actually describes between articles thirty 277 00:12:18,255 --> 00:12:20,475 seven and thirty nine of the gd 278 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,415 pr where article thirty seven talks about 279 00:12:23,415 --> 00:12:26,295 when a company needs to designate a 280 00:12:26,295 --> 00:12:29,445 data protection officer and then what their 281 00:12:29,445 --> 00:12:31,755 position is and what the tasks of 282 00:12:31,755 --> 00:12:33,075 the data protection officer 283 00:12:33,165 --> 00:12:37,485 r and so in that sense our 284 00:12:38,235 --> 00:12:43,245 privacy questions inside companies and can emanate 285 00:12:43,275 --> 00:12:46,065 from the technical teams the legal teams 286 00:12:46,755 --> 00:12:49,485 and the customer support teams and what 287 00:12:49,485 --> 00:12:51,435 is really interesting with with a duty 288 00:12:51,435 --> 00:12:53,235 pr is that they create 289 00:12:53,369 --> 00:12:56,865 this obligation of a centralizing role that 290 00:12:56,865 --> 00:12:58,815 basically takes on i call it the 291 00:12:58,815 --> 00:13:01,035 hot potatoes so i am a hot 292 00:13:01,035 --> 00:13:04,035 potato take her for anything where we 293 00:13:04,035 --> 00:13:06,825 have questions about does this make sense 294 00:13:06,825 --> 00:13:08,475 does it support a fundamental right to 295 00:13:08,505 --> 00:13:10,515 privacy or or is this a problem 296 00:13:11,715 --> 00:13:13,635 so the gdp are basically defines this 297 00:13:13,635 --> 00:13:15,825 companies have a choice to decide whether 298 00:13:15,825 --> 00:13:18,975 they appoint one or not and it's 299 00:13:18,975 --> 00:13:23,025 finding itself also incite more legislations i 300 00:13:23,025 --> 00:13:25,275 was reading about singapore last nights and 301 00:13:25,275 --> 00:13:28,215 singapore also on talks about data protection 302 00:13:28,215 --> 00:13:31,725 officers and so these people are basically 303 00:13:31,725 --> 00:13:31,875 b 304 00:13:31,875 --> 00:13:35,715 bridges between different departments to make sure 305 00:13:35,715 --> 00:13:38,835 that's the way data is being treated 306 00:13:38,955 --> 00:13:41,835 is as balanced as possible between you 307 00:13:41,835 --> 00:13:44,355 know opportunities for business and and fundamental 308 00:13:44,355 --> 00:13:48,105 rights to privacy that the specific and 309 00:13:48,108 --> 00:13:50,175 i think position also have a dpr 310 00:13:50,235 --> 00:13:52,035 is that you give rec 311 00:13:52,035 --> 00:13:55,155 tremendous patience but it doesn't always mean 312 00:13:55,155 --> 00:13:57,105 that the company follows it's you're not 313 00:13:57,105 --> 00:13:59,955 a decision maker you are 314 00:14:00,795 --> 00:14:03,795 you represents the fundamental rights of data 315 00:14:03,795 --> 00:14:07,395 subjects and looking at the systems the 316 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:11,145 data flaws the processes you make recommendations 317 00:14:11,145 --> 00:14:13,725 with respect to how the system should 318 00:14:13,725 --> 00:14:16,965 work after that add depending on who 319 00:14:16,965 --> 00:14:19,995 the dpr reports to it's a it's 320 00:14:19,995 --> 00:14:20,595 a risk bay 321 00:14:20,595 --> 00:14:22,725 based analysis from the company to say 322 00:14:23,145 --> 00:14:25,155 i agree or i don't or don't 323 00:14:25,155 --> 00:14:27,045 agree or i come with something else 324 00:14:28,035 --> 00:14:30,195 in order to mitigate the potential issue 325 00:14:30,198 --> 00:14:31,845 that was raised by the dpl 326 00:14:35,775 --> 00:14:36,255 thank you 327 00:14:38,445 --> 00:14:41,385 okay i sink and the the next 328 00:14:41,385 --> 00:14:44,685 question is authority as well occurs the 329 00:14:44,687 --> 00:14:47,841 question it's like what when we when 330 00:14:47,841 --> 00:14:50,325 he when we hear you we would 331 00:14:50,325 --> 00:14:52,275 have the feeling that the data protection 332 00:14:52,275 --> 00:14:55,425 officer is like the sheep we have 333 00:14:55,425 --> 00:14:57,255 a five six legs 334 00:14:58,095 --> 00:14:59,865 could you please tell us a bit 335 00:14:59,895 --> 00:15:02,954 more about the background that's most of 336 00:15:02,955 --> 00:15:03,375 sure 337 00:15:04,695 --> 00:15:06,525 colleagues let's sales people that you are 338 00:15:06,525 --> 00:15:08,115 seeing on the field who are the 339 00:15:08,115 --> 00:15:11,115 people like you of all could you 340 00:15:11,115 --> 00:15:14,055 as well explain you expand us 341 00:15:15,105 --> 00:15:17,475 how did you succeed to come to 342 00:15:17,475 --> 00:15:19,395 to take this position as well what 343 00:15:19,395 --> 00:15:23,325 motivated you in the king disposition are 344 00:15:23,325 --> 00:15:25,905 you like learning every dash are you 345 00:15:27,435 --> 00:15:30,048 are you sometimes scared of trust of 346 00:15:30,165 --> 00:15:33,345 in a new techie stuff to learn 347 00:15:33,345 --> 00:15:35,265 which are a brand-new which of course 348 00:15:35,505 --> 00:15:38,715 could raise more complexities maybe you may 349 00:15:38,715 --> 00:15:40,725 realize that okay i have those new 350 00:15:40,725 --> 00:15:43,665 information system coming within my risk assessment 351 00:15:43,965 --> 00:15:45,525 and i don't know them and i 352 00:15:45,555 --> 00:15:47,235 don't have the time to enjoy 353 00:15:47,235 --> 00:15:48,915 instigate them because i just have one 354 00:15:48,915 --> 00:15:51,825 we can free an overdose question and 355 00:15:51,825 --> 00:15:53,895 just coming to my head and the 356 00:15:54,015 --> 00:15:56,025 gen one that i succeeded to graph 357 00:15:56,030 --> 00:15:57,315 this could you please tell us a 358 00:15:57,315 --> 00:15:59,595 bit more about the background that's the 359 00:15:59,595 --> 00:16:02,385 appeal must of to embrace this position 360 00:16:03,165 --> 00:16:05,625 yeah and i see there's there's also 361 00:16:05,655 --> 00:16:06,975 a question about that 362 00:16:07,395 --> 00:16:08,295 in the chats 363 00:16:09,315 --> 00:16:09,724 i 364 00:16:11,115 --> 00:16:13,635 that was basically the next question and 365 00:16:13,725 --> 00:16:16,455 yeah so it it's interesting to note 366 00:16:16,515 --> 00:16:19,455 that for example there's an association called 367 00:16:19,455 --> 00:16:23,175 the aipp international association of privacy professionals 368 00:16:23,835 --> 00:16:25,695 and they do surveys to see who 369 00:16:25,695 --> 00:16:28,755 their members are and and i remember 370 00:16:28,785 --> 00:16:30,525 early on because they weren't like the 371 00:16:30,525 --> 00:16:31,155 first lawyer 372 00:16:31,275 --> 00:16:33,165 or started talking to us just like 373 00:16:33,225 --> 00:16:35,295 they were there thought it sounded like 374 00:16:35,415 --> 00:16:37,065 the best way that the best place 375 00:16:37,065 --> 00:16:37,485 to go 376 00:16:38,775 --> 00:16:42,075 when they serve as surveys and their 377 00:16:42,075 --> 00:16:45,345 members do and not all of them 378 00:16:45,345 --> 00:16:48,517 had been appointed dpl but the majority 379 00:16:48,705 --> 00:16:52,005 had the legal backgrounds and so there 380 00:16:52,005 --> 00:16:55,485 are also recommendations certainly in the early 381 00:16:55,485 --> 00:16:58,125 days of the gg pr by different 382 00:16:58,125 --> 00:16:58,755 authorities 383 00:16:58,755 --> 00:17:02,655 s to consider that dps should have 384 00:17:02,715 --> 00:17:03,825 a legal background 385 00:17:05,295 --> 00:17:07,095 now i do understand that but i 386 00:17:07,095 --> 00:17:08,535 tend not to agree 387 00:17:09,555 --> 00:17:12,525 i because i think that's as you 388 00:17:12,525 --> 00:17:14,565 said the whole nights it's a mouton 389 00:17:14,565 --> 00:17:17,204 sank bats it's a it's a it's 390 00:17:17,204 --> 00:17:19,545 a sheep with five legs we used 391 00:17:19,545 --> 00:17:20,714 to say that about a weapon the 392 00:17:20,714 --> 00:17:22,905 olympics as well many years ago so 393 00:17:22,905 --> 00:17:25,305 that's that's always funny to those parallels 394 00:17:25,305 --> 00:17:29,145 that actually come back and buds as 395 00:17:29,145 --> 00:17:29,715 as your 396 00:17:29,895 --> 00:17:33,855 a bridge builder between certainty the technical 397 00:17:33,855 --> 00:17:35,865 teams and certainly for as a dpr 398 00:17:35,866 --> 00:17:38,895 for for a data platform and you 399 00:17:38,895 --> 00:17:41,025 need to have some understanding also of 400 00:17:41,085 --> 00:17:44,205 of cell technology of data and also 401 00:17:44,205 --> 00:17:46,905 be able to interpret the law and 402 00:17:46,935 --> 00:17:49,875 so my background is econometrics institute 403 00:17:49,905 --> 00:17:52,935 six i know digital because i've basically 404 00:17:52,935 --> 00:17:54,435 been in there for the last twenty 405 00:17:54,435 --> 00:17:57,315 years and and curious about it and 406 00:17:57,345 --> 00:17:59,865 i learned the the legal path and 407 00:17:59,865 --> 00:18:02,505 keep talking to the lawyers about the 408 00:18:02,505 --> 00:18:07,545 interpretation what does certain words mean and 409 00:18:07,665 --> 00:18:10,035 i inside certain court decisions and 410 00:18:10,035 --> 00:18:11,865 this is where i think it's also 411 00:18:11,865 --> 00:18:15,105 important to have like a network of 412 00:18:15,105 --> 00:18:18,705 individuals that can bring their thoughts and 413 00:18:18,705 --> 00:18:22,515 reflections about the interpretation of legislation and 414 00:18:22,605 --> 00:18:25,845 so most dps i would say either 415 00:18:25,905 --> 00:18:28,995 they have been appointed as as an 416 00:18:29,025 --> 00:18:29,955 additional 417 00:18:31,425 --> 00:18:33,435 how should a task to their job 418 00:18:34,215 --> 00:18:36,765 by bigger companies because somebody had to 419 00:18:36,765 --> 00:18:38,565 beat the dpl because of the gdp 420 00:18:38,565 --> 00:18:41,925 are as of the enforcement i've seen 421 00:18:41,925 --> 00:18:44,595 different types of dps i've seen really 422 00:18:44,595 --> 00:18:46,095 legal legal people who are going to 423 00:18:46,125 --> 00:18:47,925 touch upon digital at all and don't 424 00:18:47,925 --> 00:18:50,355 understand how it works and dsp 425 00:18:50,355 --> 00:18:52,335 people even work at facebook sites it's 426 00:18:52,425 --> 00:18:55,365 sometimes a bit scary and i've seen 427 00:18:55,905 --> 00:18:58,905 people who are very technical and very 428 00:18:58,905 --> 00:19:03,075 pragmatic and talk about processes as i've 429 00:19:03,075 --> 00:19:06,705 seen more jack junior people what worries 430 00:19:06,705 --> 00:19:09,105 me the most i have to confess 431 00:19:09,105 --> 00:19:10,515 but it's it's maturing 432 00:19:11,055 --> 00:19:12,825 is that the pills searching in the 433 00:19:12,825 --> 00:19:15,975 beginning were very young so it's like 434 00:19:15,975 --> 00:19:17,775 oh we have to appoint somebody you 435 00:19:17,775 --> 00:19:19,875 know to take the hot potato and 436 00:19:19,935 --> 00:19:21,825 to be honest you get pushed rounds 437 00:19:22,372 --> 00:19:23,745 you get pushed around by the sea 438 00:19:23,745 --> 00:19:25,935 teal by you know you you have 439 00:19:25,935 --> 00:19:27,915 to ask questions to understand how the 440 00:19:27,915 --> 00:19:30,615 systems work and if you're not like 441 00:19:30,855 --> 00:19:33,885 your persistence and i typically use my 442 00:19:33,885 --> 00:19:35,175 gray hair and say you know i 443 00:19:35,235 --> 00:19:36,735 am really silly i'm really stupid but 444 00:19:36,735 --> 00:19:38,175 i don't understand what you guys are 445 00:19:38,175 --> 00:19:41,565 talking about and then i i'm not 446 00:19:41,565 --> 00:19:43,725 sure you're very effective as a dps 447 00:19:44,955 --> 00:19:47,205 so it's it's the maturity and and 448 00:19:47,205 --> 00:19:49,485 i think you're also the experience of 449 00:19:49,635 --> 00:19:55,155 difference and specialization that makes for a 450 00:19:55,155 --> 00:19:58,485 good dpl but it's it's a new 451 00:19:58,485 --> 00:20:00,765 type of title so it still needs 452 00:20:00,765 --> 00:20:02,835 to evolve but there's less lawyers in 453 00:20:02,835 --> 00:20:04,995 there jpp did another show 454 00:20:04,995 --> 00:20:08,565 survey survey i realized that this percentage 455 00:20:08,565 --> 00:20:10,935 of lawyers up about eighty percent went 456 00:20:10,935 --> 00:20:14,025 back to forty so other types of 457 00:20:15,585 --> 00:20:18,945 profiles are also starting to to to 458 00:20:18,945 --> 00:20:22,365 apply to data protection officer jobs and 459 00:20:22,635 --> 00:20:25,005 often they come from privacy home sourcing 460 00:20:25,005 --> 00:20:25,155 so 461 00:20:25,985 --> 00:20:28,085 or they just went through certain trainings 462 00:20:28,085 --> 00:20:29,405 and and this is what they want 463 00:20:29,434 --> 00:20:29,645 to do 464 00:20:32,075 --> 00:20:34,445 okay thank you i i often those 465 00:20:34,445 --> 00:20:36,155 accused that your question was just came 466 00:20:36,215 --> 00:20:38,945 from and which links back to something 467 00:20:38,945 --> 00:20:40,895 that you that you said some minutes 468 00:20:40,895 --> 00:20:45,305 ago about okay you provide recommendation and 469 00:20:45,305 --> 00:20:47,705 then the ceo of the company on 470 00:20:47,705 --> 00:20:50,285 let's just take coral bells deciding to 471 00:20:50,285 --> 00:20:50,585 go 472 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:52,595 this way is up to go and 473 00:20:52,595 --> 00:20:54,455 those away always up to nuts have 474 00:20:54,485 --> 00:20:57,005 loads of recommendation at all and we've 475 00:20:57,005 --> 00:20:59,596 injured the pr what is already famous 476 00:20:59,615 --> 00:21:02,615 for this whole depress us spread the 477 00:21:02,615 --> 00:21:04,925 world about his his those four per 478 00:21:04,985 --> 00:21:08,495 cent of turnover on it said penalties 479 00:21:08,825 --> 00:21:10,985 if someone is not respect 480 00:21:10,985 --> 00:21:12,935 acting or let's say gdps i would 481 00:21:12,935 --> 00:21:14,765 like to say that does it work 482 00:21:14,765 --> 00:21:16,685 for wheel on the shield i mean 483 00:21:16,685 --> 00:21:19,085 this threat of a guys if you 484 00:21:19,115 --> 00:21:20,735 don't follow my recommendation 485 00:21:21,815 --> 00:21:24,039 you may be subject to four percent 486 00:21:24,065 --> 00:21:27,155 off of penalty of ton about your 487 00:21:27,155 --> 00:21:29,465 company always it in fact some something 488 00:21:29,465 --> 00:21:32,135 that the company does not even care 489 00:21:32,135 --> 00:21:34,355 about because they're saying that that it 490 00:21:34,355 --> 00:21:36,725 will never happen because they'll sell too 491 00:21:36,725 --> 00:21:38,555 powerful on the market and of course 492 00:21:38,555 --> 00:21:41,165 they will use some as a let's 493 00:21:41,165 --> 00:21:41,945 say a way 494 00:21:41,945 --> 00:21:44,195 as of single cat you cannot put 495 00:21:44,195 --> 00:21:46,445 me for boston because if so i 496 00:21:46,445 --> 00:21:49,235 will decide to outsource all my company 497 00:21:49,237 --> 00:21:52,205 somewhere and finally know one of the 498 00:21:52,235 --> 00:21:54,845 goodness four percent let's say 499 00:21:55,895 --> 00:21:58,925 penalty so i would probably go to 500 00:21:59,015 --> 00:22:01,685 maybe five or six warnings before the 501 00:22:01,715 --> 00:22:04,325 plates and i would probably actor under 502 00:22:04,325 --> 00:22:07,475 celled wanting something like this and feel 503 00:22:07,505 --> 00:22:08,915 free to insult to this question that's 504 00:22:08,915 --> 00:22:11,285 ok this is confidential i prefer nothing 505 00:22:11,285 --> 00:22:13,715 sober i'm just curious about this point 506 00:22:13,775 --> 00:22:16,025 does it does does it work 507 00:22:16,025 --> 00:22:19,055 ok this four-person the threat of of 508 00:22:19,055 --> 00:22:19,715 affinity 509 00:22:20,825 --> 00:22:23,285 i think as we are 510 00:22:24,485 --> 00:22:27,215 beyond a couple of years of enforcement 511 00:22:27,245 --> 00:22:29,825 of the gd pr and i think 512 00:22:29,825 --> 00:22:31,925 initially it did it did scare a 513 00:22:31,925 --> 00:22:34,295 lot of people because you have to 514 00:22:34,295 --> 00:22:36,755 understand that prior to the gdp are 515 00:22:36,755 --> 00:22:39,995 the data protection directive only allowed two 516 00:22:39,995 --> 00:22:42,785 countries to fine around half a million 517 00:22:42,785 --> 00:22:44,585 euros and that was 518 00:22:44,675 --> 00:22:45,815 uk and spain 519 00:22:47,315 --> 00:22:50,255 i so i remember talking to somebody 520 00:22:50,255 --> 00:22:51,544 in digital and that it takes a 521 00:22:51,544 --> 00:22:53,495 couple of years back before the gd 522 00:22:53,498 --> 00:22:56,825 pr and i think that person was 523 00:22:56,825 --> 00:23:00,095 in the czech republic and that person 524 00:23:00,095 --> 00:23:02,165 said you know if if anybody gets 525 00:23:02,165 --> 00:23:04,175 fined under the data protection directive is 526 00:23:04,175 --> 00:23:06,395 like what is it five hundred euros 527 00:23:06,545 --> 00:23:07,145 who cares 528 00:23:07,145 --> 00:23:10,085 it's it's it doesn't matter it's just 529 00:23:10,085 --> 00:23:12,395 you know doing business and as i'm 530 00:23:12,395 --> 00:23:13,985 based in spain i know that you 531 00:23:13,985 --> 00:23:16,475 know companies like telefonica they basically had 532 00:23:16,475 --> 00:23:19,355 a budget for data protection finds under 533 00:23:19,355 --> 00:23:20,255 the directive 534 00:23:21,545 --> 00:23:24,246 so initially i think it was really 535 00:23:24,246 --> 00:23:26,585 a good you know wake up call 536 00:23:26,645 --> 00:23:28,325 to say hey guys two to four 537 00:23:28,325 --> 00:23:30,545 percent of global turnover or twenty million 538 00:23:30,545 --> 00:23:33,815 euros whichever is higher is your financial 539 00:23:33,815 --> 00:23:38,015 risk and and it did serve as 540 00:23:38,015 --> 00:23:39,875 a wake up call it it's why 541 00:23:39,905 --> 00:23:41,465 you know all these data protection offer 542 00:23:41,495 --> 00:23:43,295 series have been appointed and things like 543 00:23:43,295 --> 00:23:46,685 that i i today think this is 544 00:23:46,685 --> 00:23:50,075 starting to backfire why am i saying 545 00:23:50,075 --> 00:23:53,765 that's well because what basically happened to 546 00:23:53,765 --> 00:23:57,335 the larger players who is a business 547 00:23:57,335 --> 00:24:00,335 model depends on personal data so they 548 00:24:00,335 --> 00:24:01,625 hired a lot of very 549 00:24:01,625 --> 00:24:06,575 smart privacy professionals before the enforcement of 550 00:24:06,575 --> 00:24:09,005 the gd pr and clearly had a 551 00:24:09,005 --> 00:24:11,765 strategy of what i call lawyering up 552 00:24:12,215 --> 00:24:15,545 if i get fined let's imagine fifty 553 00:24:15,545 --> 00:24:17,165 million euros by camille 554 00:24:17,825 --> 00:24:19,295 i dunno go to the courts and 555 00:24:19,295 --> 00:24:23,855 fight it and ideally that i find 556 00:24:23,855 --> 00:24:26,675 will disappear which which is what happened 557 00:24:26,735 --> 00:24:28,865 to the fifty million euros trump camille 558 00:24:30,485 --> 00:24:32,345 so in that sense it's a good 559 00:24:32,345 --> 00:24:34,235 thing because it woke up the markets 560 00:24:34,445 --> 00:24:37,715 it's not ideal because it doesn't align 561 00:24:37,895 --> 00:24:40,715 all the players into making sure that 562 00:24:40,745 --> 00:24:42,605 they do the right thing because they're 563 00:24:42,725 --> 00:24:46,685 using the legal system to basically escalate 564 00:24:47,975 --> 00:24:50,795 now this has a certain time and 565 00:24:50,885 --> 00:24:52,295 what we're seeing is that more and 566 00:24:52,295 --> 00:24:54,695 more of these questions are actually now 567 00:24:54,695 --> 00:24:56,765 coming to the european court of justice 568 00:24:57,905 --> 00:25:01,115 so it's a matter of maturity where 569 00:25:01,205 --> 00:25:03,125 the market needs to evolve in a 570 00:25:03,125 --> 00:25:05,675 certain direction where certain new ways of 571 00:25:05,705 --> 00:25:10,265 thinking around data needs to take root 572 00:25:10,385 --> 00:25:13,205 and be accepted and that takes time 573 00:25:13,715 --> 00:25:15,245 we used to be in a time 574 00:25:15,245 --> 00:25:16,835 of let's collect everything and see what 575 00:25:16,835 --> 00:25:17,615 happens 576 00:25:18,095 --> 00:25:19,805 we are now in a time of 577 00:25:20,345 --> 00:25:21,935 let's use the data that may be 578 00:25:21,935 --> 00:25:24,185 nuts at start deleting and not use 579 00:25:24,185 --> 00:25:26,945 everything and data minimization and things like 580 00:25:26,945 --> 00:25:29,765 that so we're becoming more prudent with 581 00:25:29,765 --> 00:25:31,895 what we're using and and asking more 582 00:25:31,895 --> 00:25:34,505 questions and as i mentioned there are 583 00:25:34,505 --> 00:25:37,895 other acronyms after the gdp are they 584 00:25:38,135 --> 00:25:40,385 the data governance act the digital digital 585 00:25:40,385 --> 00:25:43,445 services act we're not done yet in 586 00:25:43,445 --> 00:25:45,995 terms of making short in the right 587 00:25:45,995 --> 00:25:49,955 direction so that the risk of these 588 00:25:49,955 --> 00:25:53,705 finds is there it's not ideal and 589 00:25:53,885 --> 00:25:57,485 certain supervisory authorities have started to play 590 00:25:57,935 --> 00:25:58,265 enough 591 00:25:58,265 --> 00:25:59,855 very smart way with that in the 592 00:25:59,855 --> 00:26:02,435 sense that their fines are not huge 593 00:26:03,185 --> 00:26:09,215 but their requirements for compliance do have 594 00:26:09,395 --> 00:26:14,195 a significant cost effects and this means 595 00:26:14,195 --> 00:26:16,175 that there's for example a ruling in 596 00:26:16,175 --> 00:26:18,425 belgium where a 597 00:26:18,464 --> 00:26:20,435 bank needs to pay around two hundred 598 00:26:20,435 --> 00:26:24,065 euros in fines just nothing but they 599 00:26:24,065 --> 00:26:27,575 need to change their systems behind and 600 00:26:27,575 --> 00:26:30,185 this is the iceberg nobody seems to 601 00:26:30,185 --> 00:26:32,615 see are all the powers that the 602 00:26:32,615 --> 00:26:35,975 supervisory authority have to for example stop 603 00:26:35,975 --> 00:26:38,585 data flows and say you're not allowed 604 00:26:38,585 --> 00:26:40,835 how to pass that data from here 605 00:26:40,835 --> 00:26:43,565 to there or you need to delete 606 00:26:43,775 --> 00:26:46,235 everything that's dare in a surgical manner 607 00:26:46,955 --> 00:26:48,905 and this is the real risk of 608 00:26:48,995 --> 00:26:52,355 the gdp are are these inherent costs 609 00:26:52,445 --> 00:26:54,725 because we have been used to collecting 610 00:26:54,725 --> 00:26:57,875 everything and that if something goes wrong 611 00:26:57,905 --> 00:26:58,712 we will have to 612 00:26:58,745 --> 00:27:02,045 start cleaning up and that is going 613 00:27:02,045 --> 00:27:04,745 to be like the biggest challenge in 614 00:27:04,745 --> 00:27:07,566 the longer term other challenges are also 615 00:27:07,566 --> 00:27:09,635 arising if we're thinking about it from 616 00:27:09,635 --> 00:27:13,595 a global perspective class actions are typically 617 00:27:13,595 --> 00:27:17,225 not things that exist in europe so 618 00:27:17,225 --> 00:27:18,852 class actions is when people come to 619 00:27:18,852 --> 00:27:18,905 you 620 00:27:18,905 --> 00:27:20,765 gather and they go up against accompanied 621 00:27:20,765 --> 00:27:22,805 the biggest the best example i've found 622 00:27:22,805 --> 00:27:25,295 so far as the movie erin brockovich 623 00:27:26,165 --> 00:27:28,955 where she goes after a chemical company 624 00:27:29,525 --> 00:27:31,595 but these are rising there are class 625 00:27:31,595 --> 00:27:34,655 actions that are against salesforce and oracle 626 00:27:34,655 --> 00:27:36,275 and the netherlands there's a lot of 627 00:27:36,275 --> 00:27:39,065 discussions in in australia in two 628 00:27:39,065 --> 00:27:41,165 terms of evolutions of the cas actions 629 00:27:41,585 --> 00:27:43,715 so this is another risk that is 630 00:27:43,745 --> 00:27:46,586 not directly it's it's enshrined within gdp 631 00:27:46,595 --> 00:27:49,235 arts testing things out it will take 632 00:27:49,235 --> 00:27:51,605 time but potentially it will come that 633 00:27:51,605 --> 00:27:53,795 risk will come from other countries maybe 634 00:27:53,795 --> 00:27:54,725 even the us 635 00:27:56,915 --> 00:27:59,375 okay so here we can start to 636 00:27:59,375 --> 00:28:02,105 make a link with analytics like someone 637 00:28:02,135 --> 00:28:04,631 alone who claim that someone is not 638 00:28:04,631 --> 00:28:08,310 choosing that solution properly as no that's 639 00:28:08,315 --> 00:28:10,595 a real power but if you can 640 00:28:10,597 --> 00:28:13,119 find an online service who easily does 641 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,025 a the list in one piece 642 00:28:16,025 --> 00:28:20,015 people who find this an unconventional and 643 00:28:20,015 --> 00:28:21,695 would like to think the company could 644 00:28:21,725 --> 00:28:24,201 easily gazelle all around and just knew 645 00:28:24,201 --> 00:28:26,405 a couple of clicks quoted to do 646 00:28:26,405 --> 00:28:28,475 a class action that that's typically what 647 00:28:28,475 --> 00:28:31,145 you're thinking of them right yeah yeah 648 00:28:31,295 --> 00:28:33,635 absolutely i think that's that's the direction 649 00:28:33,635 --> 00:28:35,885 this might take and what's interesting also 650 00:28:35,885 --> 00:28:36,185 is that 651 00:28:36,215 --> 00:28:39,155 search of venture capitalists certainly in france 652 00:28:39,155 --> 00:28:42,455 are backing that up okay i saw 653 00:28:42,485 --> 00:28:44,015 him on the screen we probably have 654 00:28:44,015 --> 00:28:46,916 the ugliest the slide of the metal 655 00:28:46,954 --> 00:28:50,045 camp that they did myself the question 656 00:28:50,045 --> 00:28:52,655 is is just the following that's the 657 00:28:52,685 --> 00:28:54,725 topic submission that you make for maximum 658 00:28:54,725 --> 00:28:56,345 accompanies or does it 659 00:28:56,350 --> 00:28:59,100 risk for dps differ from classic called 660 00:28:59,167 --> 00:29:01,895 risk of perception and i just would 661 00:29:01,895 --> 00:29:04,775 like to know why did you decided 662 00:29:04,775 --> 00:29:06,515 to submit this topic i mean what 663 00:29:06,515 --> 00:29:08,225 what was the main message that you 664 00:29:08,225 --> 00:29:10,055 would like to to to give us 665 00:29:10,055 --> 00:29:12,455 because i guess that's when you choose 666 00:29:12,455 --> 00:29:14,675 it you have something in mind and 667 00:29:14,675 --> 00:29:15,815 i really would like to leave you 668 00:29:15,815 --> 00:29:16,505 the flaw here 669 00:29:16,510 --> 00:29:18,492 and to have the possibility to express 670 00:29:19,715 --> 00:29:22,235 everything that that odin mindful for this 671 00:29:22,235 --> 00:29:25,325 given topic or so so i talked 672 00:29:25,325 --> 00:29:27,155 a bit about risk before this notion 673 00:29:27,155 --> 00:29:30,365 of finds and what is underneath the 674 00:29:30,365 --> 00:29:32,495 iceberg of the finds that we don't 675 00:29:32,495 --> 00:29:35,525 see those hidden costs that will certainly 676 00:29:35,525 --> 00:29:36,305 influence 677 00:29:36,785 --> 00:29:40,565 the way we treat data whether it's 678 00:29:40,565 --> 00:29:41,915 personal or or not 679 00:29:42,425 --> 00:29:44,975 but what i also realized working certainly 680 00:29:44,975 --> 00:29:48,515 was compliance teams that go through certifications 681 00:29:49,145 --> 00:29:51,695 and talk about okay our our requirements 682 00:29:51,695 --> 00:29:54,995 in terms of compliance is that when 683 00:29:55,085 --> 00:29:58,775 these compliance teams talk about risk they 684 00:29:58,775 --> 00:30:02,585 talk about risk specifically for the compa 685 00:30:02,585 --> 00:30:02,825 any 686 00:30:04,145 --> 00:30:06,455 and as i mentioned before a data 687 00:30:06,455 --> 00:30:10,686 protection officer typically is an independent and 688 00:30:10,745 --> 00:30:15,035 an external adviser to a company and 689 00:30:15,185 --> 00:30:17,315 if you enshrine this within the logic 690 00:30:17,345 --> 00:30:19,625 of the gd pr but the dpr 691 00:30:19,652 --> 00:30:22,505 does is they represents the fundamental right 692 00:30:22,505 --> 00:30:24,185 to privacy of of the 693 00:30:24,185 --> 00:30:28,505 data subjects so when a dpr talks 694 00:30:28,505 --> 00:30:30,815 about risk and when you say hey 695 00:30:30,815 --> 00:30:32,555 you know mister company this is not 696 00:30:32,555 --> 00:30:34,115 good you should not be doing that 697 00:30:34,115 --> 00:30:38,255 because because because then the company will 698 00:30:38,255 --> 00:30:40,865 take a risk assessment of their own 699 00:30:41,195 --> 00:30:43,355 to decide whether yes or no they 700 00:30:43,355 --> 00:30:44,315 will they're going to 701 00:30:44,750 --> 00:30:47,450 will do something else but the risk 702 00:30:47,450 --> 00:30:51,290 perception when a dpr flags something is 703 00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:55,340 this external vision of risk to data 704 00:30:55,340 --> 00:31:00,590 subjects compliance people talk about risk for 705 00:31:00,590 --> 00:31:04,910 the company so these visions align 706 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,460 to a certain point but not totally 707 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,850 and so this is something that is 708 00:31:10,850 --> 00:31:14,090 i think important to understand also from 709 00:31:14,090 --> 00:31:16,400 a semantic perspective because as she said 710 00:31:16,430 --> 00:31:18,081 see that so many times i use 711 00:31:18,083 --> 00:31:20,030 same words as the security people but 712 00:31:20,030 --> 00:31:22,220 we don't mean the same thing when 713 00:31:22,220 --> 00:31:23,840 i talk about risk i talk about 714 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,830 risk to society to people outside of 715 00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:28,670 the company that can 716 00:31:28,670 --> 00:31:30,920 blind people talk about risk to the 717 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,490 company our financial consequences of the choices 718 00:31:34,490 --> 00:31:36,980 we make and i think this will 719 00:31:36,980 --> 00:31:40,460 continue to evolve but what surprises me 720 00:31:40,460 --> 00:31:42,800 is that first of all the understanding 721 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:44,750 of what a dps is or is 722 00:31:44,750 --> 00:31:47,240 supposed to be a dp oh is 723 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:48,830 not the same thing as privacy 724 00:31:48,860 --> 00:31:52,700 council because of privacy council works for 725 00:31:52,700 --> 00:31:54,890 a company and if for example a 726 00:31:54,890 --> 00:31:57,297 supervisory authority knocks on the door of 727 00:31:57,297 --> 00:31:59,720 accompany and talks to the privacy council 728 00:32:00,140 --> 00:32:04,130 the privacy council has obligations of confidentiality 729 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,790 a d p o's role as defined 730 00:32:07,790 --> 00:32:08,990 within also article 731 00:32:09,050 --> 00:32:11,030 thirty nine of the gd pr is 732 00:32:11,030 --> 00:32:13,700 actually to talk to supervisory authorities 733 00:32:14,780 --> 00:32:17,630 so this once once companies also understand 734 00:32:17,630 --> 00:32:20,120 this it also means that this row 735 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,770 of deep yo is challenging because it 736 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,350 it basically if you bring in the 737 00:32:27,350 --> 00:32:30,020 risk of having somebody external looking at 738 00:32:30,020 --> 00:32:32,300 what you're doing and being able to 739 00:32:32,300 --> 00:32:34,250 talk to supervisory authorities 740 00:32:35,330 --> 00:32:37,430 so it's it's it's a challenging position 741 00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:39,860 to build trust and i think after 742 00:32:39,860 --> 00:32:41,120 three and a half years at m 743 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,670 particle we are this is what what 744 00:32:43,670 --> 00:32:46,010 is existing this is what's there i 745 00:32:46,010 --> 00:32:47,630 i typically spy on the teams and 746 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,110 give my comments but it took time 747 00:32:51,650 --> 00:32:53,570 for this trust to be built and 748 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,070 and as as you mentioned beef 749 00:32:55,105 --> 00:32:57,470 oregon on yeah i have sleepless nights 750 00:32:57,470 --> 00:33:00,230 because i'm worried about the system or 751 00:33:00,230 --> 00:33:02,840 because there is a a team that's 752 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:04,760 you know building something that i don't 753 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,290 singles in the right direction 754 00:33:07,490 --> 00:33:09,830 but i think it's it's in the 755 00:33:09,830 --> 00:33:13,670 interest long term interest of companies to 756 00:33:13,670 --> 00:33:16,550 bring in deep peels and build this 757 00:33:16,550 --> 00:33:18,080 trust to make sure that what they 758 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,950 build today and for the future goals 759 00:33:21,980 --> 00:33:25,970 in line with how privacy legislation evolves 760 00:33:26,810 --> 00:33:27,470 and so 761 00:33:27,470 --> 00:33:29,480 oh and i'm always a bit worried 762 00:33:29,540 --> 00:33:31,520 as i mentioned before young the pills 763 00:33:31,521 --> 00:33:33,110 they get pushed round and things like 764 00:33:33,110 --> 00:33:35,600 that but that the presence of mind 765 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,750 is always i look at society what 766 00:33:38,750 --> 00:33:40,910 are the consequences of what you're doing 767 00:33:41,270 --> 00:33:44,750 and where could this go nobody thoughts 768 00:33:44,810 --> 00:33:47,630 about the issues that bigger players 769 00:33:47,630 --> 00:33:50,030 day to day bring about for the 770 00:33:50,030 --> 00:33:52,700 democracies of our societies or or the 771 00:33:52,700 --> 00:33:55,970 stability and this is what all these 772 00:33:55,970 --> 00:33:57,350 deep yields need to do is to 773 00:33:57,350 --> 00:33:59,616 make sure that this goals basically in 774 00:33:59,643 --> 00:34:02,330 right direction and so this is why 775 00:34:02,330 --> 00:34:04,130 i wanted to bring this to the 776 00:34:04,130 --> 00:34:07,580 table because it's it's you know the 777 00:34:07,580 --> 00:34:07,790 euro 778 00:34:07,790 --> 00:34:09,830 happiness and institutions like to talk about 779 00:34:09,830 --> 00:34:12,320 risk and gdp are being a risk 780 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,610 based assessment and i agree but risk 781 00:34:16,610 --> 00:34:18,949 for who and for what is often 782 00:34:18,980 --> 00:34:21,139 the first starting point of any kind 783 00:34:21,139 --> 00:34:24,500 of privacy engineering discussion say okay what 784 00:34:24,530 --> 00:34:26,360 what are we talking about what is 785 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:27,949 the context and 786 00:34:27,980 --> 00:34:29,630 how do i see harm and how 787 00:34:29,630 --> 00:34:32,210 can we find balance within the data 788 00:34:32,210 --> 00:34:35,120 flows to make sure that everybody that 789 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,440 is impacted by this not only actors 790 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,480 like michael moore and and and the 791 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,000 company using them but also old data 792 00:34:44,030 --> 00:34:45,110 subjects behind 793 00:34:47,510 --> 00:34:51,320 okay thank you that that's perfect 794 00:34:52,580 --> 00:34:55,580 it's currently two thirty six i'm going 795 00:34:55,580 --> 00:34:57,080 to enter within the topic 796 00:34:58,190 --> 00:35:00,020 which is about 797 00:35:01,100 --> 00:35:03,620 link between the pure and matter more 798 00:35:03,620 --> 00:35:06,440 so i really would like to know 799 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,380 if web analytics tracking tools like metromile 800 00:35:09,950 --> 00:35:12,020 so let's add web analytics in general 801 00:35:12,110 --> 00:35:15,410 okay could say google analytics eighteenth on 802 00:35:15,410 --> 00:35:16,760 that though what what the rules are 803 00:35:17,060 --> 00:35:18,710 out the console you see by the 804 00:35:18,710 --> 00:35:19,220 peel 805 00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:23,900 so i would say like information system 806 00:35:23,900 --> 00:35:27,080 who could contain personal data or as 807 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,990 a consider those optional information system to 808 00:35:29,990 --> 00:35:32,240 look up at precisely the moment my 809 00:35:32,243 --> 00:35:35,600 question is that's within the scope of 810 00:35:35,630 --> 00:35:37,670 the pure you probably got a new 811 00:35:37,670 --> 00:35:40,040 ceo him which contain far more 812 00:35:40,430 --> 00:35:43,040 personal data then the web analytics system 813 00:35:43,850 --> 00:35:47,420 newsletter that the basis you probably have 814 00:35:48,170 --> 00:35:52,250 ozone ozone information system out there or 815 00:35:52,256 --> 00:35:54,798 just emails for example and just would 816 00:35:54,798 --> 00:35:57,830 like to know where in the scope 817 00:35:57,830 --> 00:36:00,410 of the deep your mind the location 818 00:36:00,410 --> 00:36:00,590 of 819 00:36:00,590 --> 00:36:02,690 of women that he took system 820 00:36:04,700 --> 00:36:07,850 okay so so typically when we talk 821 00:36:07,850 --> 00:36:11,840 about the obligations of a deep heel 822 00:36:11,930 --> 00:36:14,720 and it sits within the roles of 823 00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:17,390 the company so what kind of role 824 00:36:17,390 --> 00:36:19,550 does that company played paid it it 825 00:36:19,550 --> 00:36:21,500 is a data controller for its own 826 00:36:21,620 --> 00:36:23,240 marketing operations 827 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,070 and then it might be a data 828 00:36:25,070 --> 00:36:27,170 processor for other things it depends on 829 00:36:27,170 --> 00:36:28,160 what the company does 830 00:36:29,780 --> 00:36:32,990 so in that sense typically i think 831 00:36:32,990 --> 00:36:34,730 systems but i might be wrong like 832 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,270 like matter more digital analytics and the 833 00:36:38,270 --> 00:36:40,400 m p c d p's play a 834 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:40,850 role 835 00:36:41,900 --> 00:36:44,900 for marketing operations ideally more honestly i 836 00:36:44,900 --> 00:36:46,130 would i would like to see a 837 00:36:46,130 --> 00:36:48,050 bit more but apparently this is still 838 00:36:48,050 --> 00:36:49,520 like the big game here 839 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,160 and unfortunately there are a plethora of 840 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,070 tools being used by marketing departments 841 00:36:59,150 --> 00:37:02,247 i and these tools also change every 842 00:37:02,247 --> 00:37:03,560 year to three years 843 00:37:05,629 --> 00:37:08,300 and in that sense i think i'll 844 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,700 certainly dps that are are are not 845 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:16,430 technically technical minded and have issues understanding 846 00:37:16,430 --> 00:37:19,580 how all these systems interact what is 847 00:37:19,580 --> 00:37:23,030 clear is that sin certainly needs a 848 00:37:23,030 --> 00:37:24,740 gd pr as he systems 849 00:37:24,830 --> 00:37:27,980 act as data processors for marketing i 850 00:37:27,980 --> 00:37:32,510 think the minimal requirements are typically around 851 00:37:32,570 --> 00:37:34,949 this idea of having a contract or 852 00:37:34,970 --> 00:37:38,240 data protection agreements and and making sure 853 00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:40,490 that these international data flows work well 854 00:37:41,450 --> 00:37:43,580 and it also depends i mean matter 855 00:37:43,580 --> 00:37:44,990 moyes have very specific to 856 00:37:44,990 --> 00:37:46,499 cool in the sense that it's not 857 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,850 a sas solution and in in that 858 00:37:49,850 --> 00:37:52,070 sense it also you know it depends 859 00:37:52,070 --> 00:37:54,440 whether there's an appetite from the company 860 00:37:54,500 --> 00:37:57,290 to actually invest resources and making sure 861 00:37:57,290 --> 00:37:59,960 that they can set this up and 862 00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:01,550 have this up and running inside their 863 00:38:01,550 --> 00:38:02,180 systems 864 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:04,940 so i think for dps if i 865 00:38:04,940 --> 00:38:07,400 had to answer this question from that 866 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,340 specific angle do they care if they 867 00:38:10,340 --> 00:38:12,320 understand what's going on in marketing and 868 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,640 start digging a bit probably yes and 869 00:38:16,940 --> 00:38:20,840 does it facilitate do certain stances with 870 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,390 respect to privacy facilitates 871 00:38:24,020 --> 00:38:26,661 and the the the the audit and 872 00:38:26,661 --> 00:38:29,300 the audit passing by a privacy office 873 00:38:29,300 --> 00:38:31,040 of a tool like moto moto mo 874 00:38:31,130 --> 00:38:34,550 certainly but it's not the only aspect 875 00:38:34,550 --> 00:38:36,590 so how much does this way in 876 00:38:36,590 --> 00:38:39,830 the risk exercise of the company is 877 00:38:39,830 --> 00:38:40,670 a big question 878 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,220 that answer your question kind of yeah 879 00:38:46,220 --> 00:38:49,160 yeah absolutely of sergei of menus else 880 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,650 in mind i'm just trying to look 881 00:38:51,650 --> 00:38:54,860 at the time and think about the 882 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:56,810 number of slide that they have left 883 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,940 and as we're leaving some space for 884 00:38:59,270 --> 00:39:01,460 an audience to ask some questions 885 00:39:02,450 --> 00:39:07,040 but yeah that's that's answering a question 886 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:08,900 bits raising so many in my head 887 00:39:08,990 --> 00:39:11,720 that it's a well it's a it's 888 00:39:11,720 --> 00:39:14,720 a challenge the next question is about 889 00:39:15,590 --> 00:39:18,290 this one and i think it's very 890 00:39:18,290 --> 00:39:19,905 linked to do and so little would 891 00:39:19,905 --> 00:39:22,190 you provided us which is a do 892 00:39:22,190 --> 00:39:24,140 the dp will make a difference between 893 00:39:24,140 --> 00:39:28,010 proprietary software and free software because us 894 00:39:28,070 --> 00:39:30,650 up then it's within the tamil community 895 00:39:30,650 --> 00:39:32,750 make clearly a difference between the two 896 00:39:33,110 --> 00:39:36,290 that i would've affected swimming with what 897 00:39:36,290 --> 00:39:38,180 you just said with data flows but 898 00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:39,671 i really would like you to insult 899 00:39:39,746 --> 00:39:41,420 this one does it make a difference 900 00:39:41,420 --> 00:39:42,164 between appropriate 901 00:39:42,380 --> 00:39:45,746 software and free software well i i 902 00:39:45,746 --> 00:39:49,280 think our last interaction on twitter clearly 903 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,220 shows that certain dps like me think 904 00:39:52,220 --> 00:39:55,280 in terms of sass and then it's 905 00:39:55,286 --> 00:39:59,270 like alright free software that's that's totally 906 00:39:59,270 --> 00:40:00,170 different ballgame 907 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,200 because what i mentioned before it was 908 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,900 like what would your dpl ask for 909 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,780 from any sass tool is i want 910 00:40:08,990 --> 00:40:11,300 a data protection agreements and i want 911 00:40:11,300 --> 00:40:13,370 to make sure that their standard contractual 912 00:40:13,370 --> 00:40:15,260 clauses to make sure that my international 913 00:40:15,260 --> 00:40:17,600 data transfer are as local as possible 914 00:40:18,530 --> 00:40:21,470 comes in free software that 915 00:40:21,470 --> 00:40:25,250 self-hosted where you want so as standard 916 00:40:25,250 --> 00:40:28,100 contractual clause doesn't make sense and a 917 00:40:28,100 --> 00:40:30,560 dp eight doesn't really make sense anymore 918 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,490 either because there's no intermediary the question 919 00:40:34,490 --> 00:40:36,410 i think that will start to rise 920 00:40:36,410 --> 00:40:39,380 however here and it's it's it's also 921 00:40:39,380 --> 00:40:41,630 the case for sas but to 922 00:40:41,630 --> 00:40:45,860 privacy by design functionalities what is needed 923 00:40:45,890 --> 00:40:47,540 and this is also what what i've 924 00:40:47,540 --> 00:40:49,700 done most over the last certainty eighteen 925 00:40:49,700 --> 00:40:50,210 months 926 00:40:51,810 --> 00:40:54,330 complex systems is as this is a 927 00:40:54,330 --> 00:40:58,320 system that helps a data controller what 928 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,660 does that system need to do to 929 00:41:00,660 --> 00:41:06,090 assure that it supports the compliance obligations 930 00:41:06,180 --> 00:41:07,890 of the data controller so the matter 931 00:41:07,890 --> 00:41:11,910 more customers a typical example would be 932 00:41:11,910 --> 00:41:15,180 we are certainly also following apple's eighty 933 00:41:15,180 --> 00:41:20,100 ti consent status does it actually applaud 934 00:41:20,250 --> 00:41:22,170 the lawful basis for processing and the 935 00:41:22,170 --> 00:41:24,000 fact that yes or no we agreed 936 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,610 we didn't agree those terrible banners for 937 00:41:26,610 --> 00:41:29,310 a privacy and things like that does 938 00:41:29,310 --> 00:41:31,830 it defined purpose do we know what's 939 00:41:31,830 --> 00:41:32,070 that 940 00:41:32,100 --> 00:41:35,220 specific data point is about and certainly 941 00:41:35,220 --> 00:41:36,510 if you want to do more with 942 00:41:36,510 --> 00:41:39,240 that data can we use these fields 943 00:41:39,240 --> 00:41:40,170 to pass a month 944 00:41:41,220 --> 00:41:43,470 by seeing these are kind of conversations 945 00:41:43,470 --> 00:41:46,020 that need to happen today i'm focusing 946 00:41:46,020 --> 00:41:49,290 on privacy by design because also i 947 00:41:49,290 --> 00:41:51,060 mean matter more doesn't exist in a 948 00:41:51,060 --> 00:41:53,400 vacuum it is part of something that 949 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,010 is them doing something else and so 950 00:41:56,010 --> 00:41:58,800 these conversations about what do i need 951 00:41:59,130 --> 00:42:01,350 inside my tool to make 952 00:42:01,380 --> 00:42:05,250 sure that i interface correctly with how 953 00:42:05,340 --> 00:42:09,570 data subjects exercise their choices and also 954 00:42:09,570 --> 00:42:11,402 making sure that through the pipeline of 955 00:42:11,402 --> 00:42:14,880 the data these choices are respected and 956 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,030 if at the same time data subjects 957 00:42:18,090 --> 00:42:20,221 exercise their rights which is kind of 958 00:42:20,221 --> 00:42:21,510 the big one in the gdp 959 00:42:21,540 --> 00:42:23,880 yds not new but it's bigger i 960 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,310 also have the capabilities of doing that 961 00:42:27,240 --> 00:42:28,800 but i think this is like the 962 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:33,840 big challenge for most companies and sites 963 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:35,910 or free software is to start looking 964 00:42:35,910 --> 00:42:38,100 at what does privacy by design mean 965 00:42:38,100 --> 00:42:39,480 and what do i need to do 966 00:42:39,990 --> 00:42:41,670 for my customers you 967 00:42:41,670 --> 00:42:44,610 he mentioned other tools out there while 968 00:42:44,610 --> 00:42:47,940 the french tools they take different stances 969 00:42:47,970 --> 00:42:48,900 than others 970 00:42:50,100 --> 00:42:51,810 so you could imagine for example a 971 00:42:51,810 --> 00:42:55,110 tool saying and i do not forward 972 00:42:55,110 --> 00:42:58,230 this data if there's no consent is 973 00:42:58,230 --> 00:42:59,610 that the choice of the tool to 974 00:42:59,610 --> 00:43:00,960 say that or is it up to 975 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:01,710 the customer 976 00:43:02,820 --> 00:43:05,970 so these kind of discussions and stances 977 00:43:05,970 --> 00:43:09,360 are taking place depending on you know 978 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,130 the the the risk appetite of the 979 00:43:11,130 --> 00:43:13,650 company how their contracts are being set 980 00:43:13,650 --> 00:43:15,180 up and things like that but these 981 00:43:15,180 --> 00:43:17,430 are kind of the conversations that a 982 00:43:17,430 --> 00:43:19,380 tool also needs to decide to say 983 00:43:19,380 --> 00:43:22,860 okay where do i position myself do 984 00:43:22,860 --> 00:43:22,950 i 985 00:43:22,950 --> 00:43:24,660 i want to be extremely strict in 986 00:43:24,660 --> 00:43:27,270 terms of privacy or do i prefer 987 00:43:27,270 --> 00:43:29,040 not to cut myself off from other 988 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:33,660 business opportunities leaving more responsibility to my 989 00:43:33,660 --> 00:43:36,900 customers these are more ethical discussions to 990 00:43:36,900 --> 00:43:38,970 be had but they need to take 991 00:43:38,970 --> 00:43:39,420 place 992 00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:42,540 okay 993 00:43:43,620 --> 00:43:46,680 thank you very much and i'm looking 994 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:48,600 at how many quit okay i just 995 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,370 have one question left which is great 996 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,590 because we have five minutes left 997 00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:56,190 i was on the risk of personal 998 00:43:56,190 --> 00:43:59,790 data infringements fallen into dish did i 999 00:43:59,790 --> 00:44:02,610 write this question i cannot even understand 1000 00:44:02,610 --> 00:44:04,620 it myself without the risk of go 1001 00:44:04,740 --> 00:44:05,760 for an entity 1002 00:44:07,530 --> 00:44:09,420 do you understand this question because i 1003 00:44:09,420 --> 00:44:12,420 don't understand it myself than i should 1004 00:44:12,420 --> 00:44:15,570 have preferred it without the risk of 1005 00:44:15,570 --> 00:44:17,040 personal finance 1006 00:44:19,260 --> 00:44:21,690 okay we talked a bit about the 1007 00:44:21,690 --> 00:44:24,480 notion of risk and and the underlying 1008 00:44:24,780 --> 00:44:27,240 bits of the iceberg with respect to 1009 00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:29,160 search data subject rights 1010 00:44:30,540 --> 00:44:31,354 i 1011 00:44:34,650 --> 00:44:37,350 yeah i think i have something in 1012 00:44:37,350 --> 00:44:38,850 mind when i write that i didn't 1013 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,270 proofread this question just would like to 1014 00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,480 be sure that the audiences got the 1015 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,670 opportunity to ask questions so i will 1016 00:44:47,700 --> 00:44:50,880 let the chuck goes on for the 1017 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:52,530 next those thirty seconds 1018 00:44:52,830 --> 00:44:54,390 so i can see that we of 1019 00:44:54,390 --> 00:44:56,070 different people in the church we have 1020 00:44:56,070 --> 00:44:59,010 macros we have seen evolve we have 1021 00:44:59,100 --> 00:45:02,100 many other people if you have any 1022 00:45:02,100 --> 00:45:05,640 questions please feel free to ask one 1023 00:45:06,060 --> 00:45:08,280 or either already do you have any 1024 00:45:08,310 --> 00:45:10,320 any question that you expected me to 1025 00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,180 ask you or that you would like 1026 00:45:12,180 --> 00:45:12,870 the audience to 1027 00:45:12,930 --> 00:45:16,350 ask you about specific sing 1028 00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,930 no not not specifically i think we 1029 00:45:21,930 --> 00:45:23,370 we ran through our 1030 00:45:25,170 --> 00:45:25,830 oh 1031 00:45:27,240 --> 00:45:30,960 we got trois yeah people are willing 1032 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,060 to pursue a career as as peel 1033 00:45:33,270 --> 00:45:35,340 and it depends a bit on your 1034 00:45:35,460 --> 00:45:36,870 and your background i think 1035 00:45:38,310 --> 00:45:40,830 there are more and more jumper offers 1036 00:45:40,860 --> 00:45:44,010 out there but they often require some 1037 00:45:44,010 --> 00:45:51,420 form of either a certification or experience 1038 00:45:52,740 --> 00:45:57,150 and so there are certifications out there 1039 00:45:57,810 --> 00:45:59,250 the i e p p has a 1040 00:45:59,250 --> 00:46:01,920 couple of them and they often font 1041 00:46:01,936 --> 00:46:06,900 find themselves and insights and the job 1042 00:46:06,900 --> 00:46:09,570 offers that i read as i mentioned 1043 00:46:09,570 --> 00:46:11,970 also i teach at maastricht university they 1044 00:46:11,970 --> 00:46:12,630 do dps 1045 00:46:12,660 --> 00:46:13,680 certifications 1046 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,700 i'm i'm hiring as well so i'm 1047 00:46:17,700 --> 00:46:20,460 looking for people so if you're interested 1048 00:46:20,460 --> 00:46:21,750 i'm happy to have a chat 1049 00:46:22,950 --> 00:46:25,380 i do i think yeah more more 1050 00:46:25,380 --> 00:46:27,307 job offers for dps 1051 00:46:28,470 --> 00:46:30,210 but it's it's about you know getting 1052 00:46:30,210 --> 00:46:32,790 your your foot in the door and 1053 00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:36,681 start building some form of of of 1054 00:46:36,690 --> 00:46:39,360 knowledge around the the topic as well 1055 00:46:39,420 --> 00:46:43,650 if your lawyer actually helps but i'm 1056 00:46:43,650 --> 00:46:44,580 happy to help as well 1057 00:46:48,060 --> 00:46:48,600 okay 1058 00:46:50,670 --> 00:46:53,490 i cannot see any any questions left 1059 00:46:54,390 --> 00:46:58,350 on small officers another one actually personal 1060 00:46:58,350 --> 00:47:02,130 responsibility oh yeah absolutely it's a very 1061 00:47:02,130 --> 00:47:06,270 good question that was often debated and 1062 00:47:06,390 --> 00:47:08,610 and actually if you look at the 1063 00:47:08,610 --> 00:47:09,570 gd pr 1064 00:47:09,990 --> 00:47:12,240 and there is another role which has 1065 00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:13,890 the raw representative 1066 00:47:15,030 --> 00:47:17,430 and a representative you have to look 1067 00:47:17,430 --> 00:47:18,600 it up in the gdp i don't 1068 00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,210 remember the the article but is the 1069 00:47:21,210 --> 00:47:24,330 person that's going to represent to accompany 1070 00:47:24,330 --> 00:47:25,170 if they don't have 1071 00:47:26,490 --> 00:47:30,450 a foothold basically inside a certain country 1072 00:47:31,170 --> 00:47:35,190 there's more discussions about legal responsibility for 1073 00:47:35,190 --> 00:47:39,150 representatives than for dps and i think 1074 00:47:39,150 --> 00:47:41,970 it would be also counter productive to 1075 00:47:41,970 --> 00:47:45,810 talk about potential responsibility for for dps 1076 00:47:45,870 --> 00:47:46,380 because 1077 00:47:46,470 --> 00:47:48,840 i i i've seen the the conversations 1078 00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,210 about representatives and people are just walking 1079 00:47:51,210 --> 00:47:52,440 away to say i don't want that 1080 00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:54,720 liability i don't want it but i 1081 00:47:54,720 --> 00:47:57,600 don't think that as such a dps 1082 00:47:57,660 --> 00:47:59,760 have some form of a responsibility or 1083 00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,640 liability but on the other hand they 1084 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:04,350 are responsible for it in front of 1085 00:48:04,350 --> 00:48:06,540 the supervisory authorities to answer any kinds 1086 00:48:06,540 --> 00:48:06,630 of 1087 00:48:06,660 --> 00:48:10,410 questions and this is still in discussion 1088 00:48:10,410 --> 00:48:12,510 and in in making do 1089 00:48:13,170 --> 00:48:15,000 i think if we're talking about some 1090 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:16,920 form of a responsibility or a certain 1091 00:48:16,974 --> 00:48:21,720 liability there is conversations about more civil 1092 00:48:21,720 --> 00:48:25,710 liability for decision makers so seals and 1093 00:48:25,710 --> 00:48:28,110 things like that or criminal liability i 1094 00:48:28,110 --> 00:48:30,570 think the conversation will go there not 1095 00:48:30,660 --> 00:48:32,850 dps because that would be kind of 1096 00:48:33,060 --> 00:48:35,520 shooting the subjected in the foot 1097 00:48:37,380 --> 00:48:38,010 but we'll see 1098 00:48:40,980 --> 00:48:43,560 perfect and on small thank you very 1099 00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,740 much for being with us today to 1100 00:48:46,740 --> 00:48:49,770 spend some time just retina the room 1101 00:48:50,130 --> 00:48:52,410 with all the different questions we'd be 1102 00:48:52,410 --> 00:48:54,690 on until the end of the events 1103 00:48:54,690 --> 00:48:56,790 on his head this evening so if 1104 00:48:56,790 --> 00:48:59,190 you have some free time left of 1105 00:48:59,190 --> 00:49:00,240 feel free to have a look at 1106 00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:03,000 it maybe some new questions will come 1107 00:49:04,290 --> 00:49:06,450 if you will have time which was 1108 00:49:06,450 --> 00:49:07,950 totally understand of course 1109 00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:10,170 should free tuf 1110 00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:12,780 to to leave it and i will 1111 00:49:12,780 --> 00:49:14,400 send you the the questions mate you 1112 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,800 made if i got them and for 1113 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,350 the audience i remembered that the speaker 1114 00:49:19,410 --> 00:49:21,660 was all hindi poets and that you 1115 00:49:21,660 --> 00:49:23,940 can easily find her on a very 1116 00:49:23,940 --> 00:49:26,580 famous options zine because she's kind of 1117 00:49:26,670 --> 00:49:29,310 the expert in the world dealing with 1118 00:49:29,460 --> 00:49:31,350 privacy a privacy concern 1119 00:49:31,350 --> 00:49:34,350 since i thank you very much orange 1120 00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,390 thank you for everything thank you for 1121 00:49:36,390 --> 00:49:38,700 having me thank you for listening and 1122 00:49:38,700 --> 00:49:41,280 if there are any any questions this 1123 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,320 is also how we all learn please 1124 00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:46,410 feel free keep in touch and have 1125 00:49:46,410 --> 00:49:48,660 a good conference went on thank you 1126 00:49:48,660 --> 00:49:50,130 for having me thank you 1127 00:49:51,270 --> 00:49:53,610 the next conference would be in nine 1128 00:49:53,610 --> 00:49:55,080 minutes from now cause there is only 1129 00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,390 one on the schedule that i can 1130 00:49:57,390 --> 00:50:00,300 see this one will be made by 1131 00:50:00,450 --> 00:50:03,210 continue you by and myself even if 1132 00:50:03,210 --> 00:50:05,100 i will have just the minor roles 1133 00:50:05,490 --> 00:50:07,710 in it it's about using that mode 1134 00:50:07,710 --> 00:50:10,770 to collect data on intervention engagement within 1135 00:50:10,770 --> 00:50:11,400 the results 1136 00:50:11,700 --> 00:50:14,839 triodos food so use case from a 1137 00:50:14,839 --> 00:50:17,040 a client of mine so the clients 1138 00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:19,320 will talk about this project and i 1139 00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,290 will come within the conference and explain 1140 00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,180 how we did with the project management 1141 00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:26,940 but we have met so useful